A plan for lowering mine and my fathers scores.

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hp12c

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I play about a round a week with my dad at an executive course were the par is 62 and the total yardage is 3802. I did a little calculation on the 10 most previous round and this what I came up with.
Based on my total strokes in those ten rounds my average strokes for the ten rounds is 78.364 my average putts were 34.364 for those ten rounds.
My dad who is a senior, average strokes for the ten rounds came to 91.455 and average putts are 37.
These calculation do not include the slope, these are raw averages based on total strokes and putts.
I did a little more calclations and looked at 3 putts per round as a way of lowering both our scores if we can reduce or eliminate these 3 putts.
In those then rounds I had 34 holes were I 3 putted,crap, which is 27% of my total putts in those ten rounds.
My dad had 48 holes were he 3 putted, he wasnt too happy when I told him, this accounted for 35% of his total putts.
Im going with a 2 prong approach, which will included practicing getting the ball closer to the pin on my second shots on the par 4s and getting the ball closer to the pin on the par 3s and also practicing my long putts to get the ball closer to the hole.
My dads plan if he chooses to accept it is first get him fitted with a new driver and irons,hybrids, hes playing with a taylor made 10.5 degree with a regular stiff shaft which he can get out to about 180yds sometimes less and hes also playing old and I mean old stick, like Ben Hogan Blades from the 60's when he was younger he was ok with these irons but now its a disaster, especially with the 3/4 backswing he has now adays.
After the new stuff comes in for him the plan is to work on his driver swing, keep in the short grass.
2 work on the second shots to the green on the par fours, hes usually over 120-140 yds out and continues to think he can hits 7 iron to the green, a blade 7 iron, hes usually 20 or more yds. short and hes usually short on next pitch shots too which leaves a long putt for par and ends up 3 putting 35% of the time.
3 work on the pitch shots if hes leaving them short with the new equipment.
4 work on getting the long putts closer to the hole, hes deadly 10 feet in.
The story is the same on the par 3's the shortest par 3 is 129yds but its usually into a slight breeze, he pulls out his wedge or 8 iron and leaves it 20yds short, leaves his pitch short and u know the story 3 putt.
I know he wants to play better to lower his scores and I think the new equipment will help him.
Thats the plan did I miss anything?
 
IMO it is a bit complicated.

If I read your numbers correctly it would seem to me if you both spent you time working on putts, short to long, the elimination of 3 putts would knock about 10 strokes off both of your scores.

For me working from the hole back seems to be more logical and it is something that can initially be practiced almost anywhere. In addition the fundamentals learned should be something to build on.

Just a suggestion.
 
The only part of your long analytical approach that has much chance of helping is the club change for your Dad. The rest is mostly useless.
Why would I say that? Because when you say you are going to practice, one has to ask, "Practice what?" If you are serious about getting better, then take some lessons. It does no good to practice unless you learn what to practice. In essence, you will be practicing the same things that are causing you to shoot those high numbers.
 

hp12c

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IMO it is a bit complicated.

If I read your numbers correctly it would seem to me if you both spent you time working on putts, short to long, the elimination of 3 putts would knock about 10 strokes off both of your scores.

For me working from the hole back seems to be more logical and it is something that can initially be practiced almost anywhere. In addition the fundamentals learned should be something to build on.

Just a suggestion.

Very interresting, will work with that.
 

hp12c

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The only part of your long analytical approach that has much chance of helping is the club change for your Dad. The rest is mostly useless.
Why would I say that? Because when you say you are going to practice, one has to ask, "Practice what?" If you are serious about getting better, then take some lessons. It does no good to practice unless you learn what to practice. In essence, you will be practicing the same things that are causing you to shoot those high numbers.

I was very concise in what Im going to work on and I disagee with your conclusions about that being useless an also about getting lesson, lesson on what?
 
Concise? Come on. No where is your post did you ever include the any "How statements". Saying you are going to work on getting Pitch Shots closer to the hole is simplistic. What change or method will you use?
The Tour Chip? Mickelson's Hinge and Hold? This is just to illustrate my point. Working hitting irons closer to the flag involves more than going out and hitting 200 approach shots. You have to know what to do.

If you are shooting 16 over par on 3800 yard executive course, then it's obvious you need outside help. It's also obvious, to me, that you shouldn't pretend that you know how to help your father. Sort of like the blind leading the blind. Goes on every day at golf courses all over the country and mostly doesn't help.

Just my opinion. Firmly held. Good Luck!

No need to argue back and forth. You posted. I posted. That's all.
 
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Here is a suggestion that really helped me find more GIR.

Take a sky caddie and go to a long par 5 and pick a spot in the fairway around 300 yards from the hole. Mark the spot with the skycaddie and hit 3 or 4 balls with each club or even every other club in the bag and then go see how many yards your ball traveled.

This may seem fairly basic to know exactly how far you hit your irons on average but I'm amazed at how many people judge their iron distance based on that one time they underclubbed and flushed it onto the green on a par 3 and then memorize that distance, fooling themselves into missing greens thereafter.

Pin high is the place to be, and there is no excuse for missing the green by 20 yards with a straight shot unless you're hitting your longest club that's not a driver. It's foolish to me. You have to be honest with yourself about what you can do. most players have plenty of distance for a 150 yard shot, most players also choose their 135 yard club and then overswing. IMO you have to be wiser to be a great golfer. I would rather airmail one or two greens a round than miss a bunch more greens short.

Also consider sending a private message to richie3jack, he is great with statistics and course management stategy.
 
"Pin high is the place to be" I guess I'm just in the mood. While this is the often repeated wisdom, it is sometimes not the smart play. I know you know this, but others might not. On greens where above the hole is death, you better know the distance to front and play short of hole high. You are spot on about the distance you hit each club thing.

The GPS thing is perfect for that. I have two laser rangefinders, and have had the thought all year that I needed GPS. Last Thursday during, the Jekyl and Hyde round, that subject came up. My cart partner has the latest SkyCaddie, he mentions that he has a 3.5 that he only used 3 times and wants to sell it. Price? $75.00. I get it on Monday and one of the uses will the gapping subject. Not giving up the laser, but think
the SkyCaddie will provide useful info like distance to front, back , and hazards.
 
maybe I shouldn't have repeated that mantra. when I play I look to carry all the trouble you can find short of the green first and then err towards the middle of the green distance after that. every hole is different though so you have to play away from dangerous spots around the green. rarely are there bunkers or water to deal with if you go a little long...look for exceptions to this rule and adjust your play accordingly.

have your dad go out and hit TWO more clubs than he wants to for every approach shot, one more club will just put him in the bunkers he is probably coming up short of when he misses the GIR. see how it goes and he may surprise himself and swallow some pride next time and play better golf in the process.
 
My heart sinks at the idea of the average handicap golfer thinking like this - and what it will do to the pace of play.

Really? Why? It sure as hell beats searching for a marked sprinkler head or pacing off from a marker on the side of the fairway.
 

hp12c

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Concise? Come on. No where is your post did you ever include the any "How statements". Saying you are going to work on getting Pitch Shots closer to the hole is simplistic. What change or method will you use?
The Tour Chip? Mickelson's Hinge and Hold? This is just to illustrate my point. Working hitting irons closer to the flag involves more than going out and hitting 200 approach shots. You have to know what to do.

If you are shooting 16 over par on 3800 yard executive course, then it's obvious you need outside help. It's also obvious, to me, that you shouldn't pretend that you know how to help your father. Sort of like the blind leading the blind. Goes on every day at golf courses all over the country and mostly doesn't help.

Just my opinion. Firmly held. Good Luck!

No need to argue back and forth. You posted. I posted. That's all.

No argument as u said just an your opinion and that is all it is.
 
Really? Why? It sure as hell beats searching for a marked sprinkler head or pacing off from a marker on the side of the fairway.

I like single yardage measurements - I think they speed play up.

What worries me is when the average joe starts trying to crunch all the available numbers - distance to the front, distance to pin, distance to a hazard at the back of the green, gradient, stimp, windspeed, air temperature, dew factor... All too often, these variables can only be factored in one practice swing at a time.
 
5 minutes crunching data, 15 practice swings and a shank into the woods proceeded by a 7 minute ball search party per golfer x 4 golfers. They don't even notice that you're behind them waiting as they analyze the inevitable. It can make for a really long and frustrating day. This may be why I'm occasionally forced to drink ice cold beer while I play. It's sad really.
 
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"My heart sinks at the idea of the average handicap golfer thinking like this - and what it will do to the pace of play."

Huh? What in the world are you talking about? It's not going to slow me down at all. I already shoot the pin with the laser. I will glance at the GPS for Front and Back distances. That takes what, 2 seconds? I will use it on blind shots. I will use it for distance to hazards. I play fast.

So I think you are absolutely wrong on this.
 
I love it. 2 secs? Yeah right. The day I see a playing partner with two laser rangefinders and a GPS dangling from his utility belt - I'll be on my way back to the pro shop to stock up on dried food.

Can I get you anything whilst I'm back there. How about a theodolite?
 
Birly, I may have been imprecise with my equipment description. I should have said that I one range finder and a spare one in the bag. I only use one. Essentially you believe that GPS and Range Finders slow down play. So let me offer this up and have you refute it.

Why would you think that courses elect to buy or lease those GPS systems that are attached to carts and paid for by the course? They must believe that they speed up play and consequently yield more rounds per year and make a customer benefit that encourages return visits. Follow the money. Hard to argue with this, but I'm sure you will.

No one would dispute that public courses are loaded with slow playing hacks that wander around, are not ready to play, take a buzzilion practice swings, and then chunk it sideways, but I think the Rangefinder/GPS aspect is a small part of the problem.
 
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