Almost...almost just threw the driver into the woods and walked off...

[Erik_K]

My erratic driver woes continue to eat me alive. Yesterday's league outing saw me hit one fairway and one green. I must have hit 5 balls into the woods. The miss was a ball that started right and either continued to go dead straight or faded a little bit. On the last hole (par 4), I decided to try and use twistaway - at the very least start the ball right and maybe hook over to the left side of the fairway.

As you might expect I pulled it probably 80 yards off the fairway.

Misses with the driver are so unbelievably erratic, I have time even finding the words. Contact with the driver is a bit better vs prior league seasons - I am trying to hit the ball lower on the face. Clearly I am steep coming into the ball and I'd prefer a level or slightly upward strike.

Even when I try to hit up the ball as much as I can the contact is usually on the 'high side' of the face (upper portion, say). I can miss the fairway either to the right or left at will. One miss usually leads to some overcompensation that results in a lost ball on the opposite side of the fairway.

These misses simply are not playable. It seems as though I am unable to play even bogey golf, because my second shot is (8 or 9 times out of 10) OB or in trouble, making the approach shot almost impossible. My playing partners are 20-30 years my senior, have probably 10-20 mph less clubhead speed, 75% less golf swing knowledge and athletic ability...yet I watch them hit the fairways probably 50-60% of time. That may not be a stellar statistic, but more often than not, they are making bogey/par...or at least have a chance at making bogey or par.

Then you throw in the typical comment, "God, Erik, your swing is right out of the PGA textbook. I don't see how you miss it so bad." I'd trade in my swing any day of the week for these guys, who, more of than not, flip at it and have reverse pivots, but find the damn fairway.

End of rant.

 

[softconsult]

My experience is that when I had variations like you describe it was the shaft, as in too flexible or too tip soft. I recently went through a fitting for new Titleist 3 wood, and 19 degree hybrid. I told the Titleist rep that it did not make sense to me that I could hit 4 iron with confidence, but existing hybrid, last years Titleist model with Voodoo Stiff shaft would be left, or right, or straight. Same thing with the Titleist 3 wood with Voodoo shaft.

So he ended up putting me in a ProForce 86 gram shaft stiff for the 3 wood, and a Fujikura something 95 gram in the hybrid. Both very tip stiff. Result? I have much greater control over the shots. I can still screw up a shot, but major improvement.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I would also check the attack angle. From my experience (and just recently), sounds exactly like that. And yes, you can be greatly fooled by the ball flight. Get on Trackman if you can.




3JACK

 

[magicmarker]

agree with soft. the shaft doesn't seem to be working with your swing.

I strive for accuracy over distance off the tee (I love all my irons equally), to do that I often have to remind myself over and over right up until the takeaway that

1. I will not "go after" this tee shot
2. I will feel like both feet (heels) are strapped down to the ground the whole time (even if the feel isn't real)
3. Turn back, turn through, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Richie3Jack]

One note on shafts.

I went to FuZion Golf a few weeks ago to get fitted. The first thing they do is they check the shaft frequency of the clubs you currently play with.

All of the steel shafts came out, more or less, fine.

A 'stiff' driver is supposed to measure 280 cpm. Mine measured at 283 cpm. Sounds good? Well, it's an X-Stiff shaft that I installed myself.

The 3-wood was a 'stiff' shaft. So it should measure 290 cpm. It's a stock shaft. When they measured it, it came out to 253 cpm, which is like a lady's flex.

Kinda depends on the shaft company because some, like Oban, are really good with their flexes. But if you're going graphite, you might want to look 1 flex stiffer just to get a shaft that plays to the correct flex.





3JACK

 

[ej20]

I think we blame equipment too much.Take any tour player,hand him a whippy hickory shafted club and he will be striping it before you know it.

I refuse to believe an "incorrectly" fitted shaft will cause you to hit shots 80 yards offline.

 

[RVArya]

I had a similar erratic driver last year with 2-4 lost balls per round. I moved to the white tees and teed off with my 2 hybrid. The result was an eye opener. My scores did not improve, even though i did not loose any balls. Reason was that my approach shots were 150-175 yds, instead of 100-125 yds. My swing was not good enough to hit greens from that distance. It was my "handsy" driver swing that was the problem

 

[Erik_K]

Equipment may be part of the problem. I've been on trackman before and I don't think anyone has told me to stop playing and get new shafts. I don't believe I have overly high swing speed.

However, I am betting the issue is more rooted in swing mechanics. My drives look like wedge shots. It's the path into the shot that is killing me - I am toast well before even contact takes place. I believe the current stiff is either regular or stiff. I can check it tonight. I know the parameters can vary wildly from OEM to OEM, and I'd love to get a newer, better driver, but you guys should see the top of my driver...it's scuffed.

Erik

 

[lia41985]

Try setting up with more axis tilt and maintaining right side bend throughout your swing. Don't allow yourself to have any back bend coming into and coming out of impact (limit back hyper extension).

 

[Erik_K]

Lia -

that's a good thought and I also think my posture from down the line needs help. If I am standing up, I am thinking this also promotes a more vertical path into the ball. I need to stay bent over and a) not lose tilt and b) don't rise up and get the hips/pelvis closer to the ball at impact.

thanks.

Erik

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

One note on shafts.

I went to FuZion Golf a few weeks ago to get fitted. The first thing they do is they check the shaft frequency of the clubs you currently play with.

All of the steel shafts came out, more or less, fine.

A 'stiff' driver is supposed to measure 280 cpm. Mine measured at 283 cpm. Sounds good? Well, it's an X-Stiff shaft that I installed myself.

The 3-wood was a 'stiff' shaft. So it should measure 290 cpm. It's a stock shaft. When they measured it, it came out to 253 cpm, which is like a lady's flex.

Kinda depends on the shaft company because some, like Oban, are really good with their flexes. But if you're going graphite, you might want to look 1 flex stiffer just to get a shaft that plays to the correct flex.





3JACK

Frequency or CPM is a guide (and a loose one at that) for determining stiffness; any decent club guy can tell you that. BUT what almost all of them will tell you is that 280cpm on a driver is NO WHERE near a stiff LOL. A good stiff in a driver is around 260-265cpm but again that won't be correct for all shafts.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Frequency or CPM is a guide (and a loose one at that) for determining stiffness; any decent club guy can tell you that. BUT what almost all of them will tell you is that 280cpm on a driver is NO WHERE near a stiff LOL. A good stiff in a driver is around 260-265cpm but again that won't be correct for all shafts.

You have to add on cpm's if the head is attached to the shaft. I believe 250 is considered 'stiff', depending on the length of the driver (mine was at 45"). I believe they add 30 cpms when the head is attached.





3JACK

 

[mgranato]

One note on shafts.

I went to FuZion Golf a few weeks ago to get fitted. The first thing they do is they check the shaft frequency of the clubs you currently play with.

All of the steel shafts came out, more or less, fine.

A 'stiff' driver is supposed to measure 280 cpm. Mine measured at 283 cpm. Sounds good? Well, it's an X-Stiff shaft that I installed myself.

The 3-wood was a 'stiff' shaft. So it should measure 290 cpm. It's a stock shaft. When they measured it, it came out to 253 cpm, which is like a lady's flex.

Kinda depends on the shaft company because some, like Oban, are really good with their flexes. But if you're going graphite, you might want to look 1 flex stiffer just to get a shaft that plays to the correct flex.





3JACK

The process for measuring the frequency of a shaft, as you described it (which is the common practice), is a terrible way of comparing different shafts. And it's not a way to determine the flex of a shaft. When you take an assembled club, put the grip in a clamp, and flick it for frequency the only thing being measured is the butt section of the shaft's profile. It is not a measurement of the overall flex or profile of the shaft. A stiff flexed shaft can have a firm, medium, or soft butt section and still be a stiff flex across it's entire length (butt, middle, and tip), but if all you do is freq the butt, you can be lead all over the place. No 1 single frequency determines a shaft's flex. For a driver shaft, it typically takes 6 measurements (2 at each section) to get a proper measurement of the shaft's flex and profile.

 

[mgranato]

One note on shafts.

I went to FuZion Golf a few weeks ago to get fitted. The first thing they do is they check the shaft frequency of the clubs you currently play with.

All of the steel shafts came out, more or less, fine.

A 'stiff' driver is supposed to measure 280 cpm. Mine measured at 283 cpm. Sounds good? Well, it's an X-Stiff shaft that I installed myself.

The 3-wood was a 'stiff' shaft. So it should measure 290 cpm. It's a stock shaft. When they measured it, it came out to 253 cpm, which is like a lady's flex.

Kinda depends on the shaft company because some, like Oban, are really good with their flexes. But if you're going graphite, you might want to look 1 flex stiffer just to get a shaft that plays to the correct flex.





3JACK

The process for measuring the frequency of a shaft, as you described it (which is the common practice), is a terrible way of comparing different shafts. And it's not a way to determine the flex of a shaft. When you take an assembled club, put the grip in a clamp, and flick it for frequency the only thing being measured is the butt section of the shaft's profile. It is not a measurement of the overall flex or profile of the shaft. A stiff flexed shaft can have a firm, medium, or soft butt section and still be a stiff flex across it's entire length (butt, middle, and tip), but if all you do is freq the butt, you can be lead all over the place. No 1 single frequency determines a shaft's flex. For a driver shaft, it typically takes 6 measurements (2 at each section) to get a proper measurement of the shaft's flex and profile.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Thanks for the info, guys.

But, back to the OP. My money is on a steep attack angle.






3JACK

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

My erratic driver woes continue to eat me alive. Yesterday's league outing saw me hit one fairway and one green. I must have hit 5 balls into the woods. The miss was a ball that started right and either continued to go dead straight or faded a little bit. On the last hole (par 4), I decided to try and use twistaway - at the very least start the ball right and maybe hook over to the left side of the fairway.

As you might expect I pulled it probably 80 yards off the fairway.

I damn near wrote a very similar post about three weeks ago. I was playing scratch golf from 150 and in, but once the driver appeared, I was helpless. Experimenting with the 3-wood merely left me in back of different trees even further from the green. Actually, the driver was preffered because I might be so wild as to have a shot from another fairway or rough. Once a club stronger than seven iron appeared, wild pulls, toe hits, and the occasional push made the green very elusive.

A couple of sessions on the Tman and Flightscope were very eye-opening. My vsp with a driver was 56*, which is great with a nine iron, and I was hitting -3* AofA. My vsp with a six iron was 58* and -7 Aof A. A relatively simply alignment change, grip change, and change in pivot mechanics turned "The Wild Child" into my old bomber. These swing flaws MIGHT have been IDed by my Casio if a very-well trained eye had seen video taken at ideal camera angles. With approximately 30 minutes of practice, I was able to get a far more conventional and repeatable swing with the driver dispersion reduced dramatically. Now I have to admit it was a little easier to make these changes under the instruction of BManz, Mike Jacobs and Matt Bryda, so they deserve a little credit (LOL). However, it sure gets your attention when you see these numbers and as Brian noted in his TMan interview, it leaves you far more amenable to making necessary changes.

Of course, now that my driver is performing, the magic from 150 in has disappeared. However, I can generally work through the short-iron, wedge game and putting with simply the Casio and a local line-drawer. I assume the guys will chime in with the benefits of the Tman and SAM for this part of the game, but I have a limited access to this stuff (closest Tman and SAM 130 miles and $100/hr). Do what Richie suggested and post the results. The pros and gifted amateurs will give you solid recommendations for corrective actions.

 

[Erik_K]

Trackman won't 'fix' me.

I already know what Trackman will tell me - I am steep coming into the ball and I don't need a $50,000 radar unit to tell me that.

How do I know I am steep?

It's all but impossible to hit the ball as high as I do with my driver without a steep angle of attack. When Brian looked at me with Trackman last year (this time with 6 iron) - he muttered something under his breath about how high I hit the damn thing.

High flight looks pretty.

Too bad it can cost you a lot of distance (high flight is not always a bad thing...maybe a high(er) launch angle without a lot of spin is actually desirable for some folks).

If my ball flight is that 'towering' with a 6 iron, and even 'worse' with a driver, I think you see the problem.

Back to my question about the steepness issue...

The problem may be rooted in my alignment or setup. At times, to shallow out the swing, I tend to stand taller at address. I often hover the club above the ground too - again, to promote a rounded move. However, I am pondering whether or not I should actually bend over more at address and actually have a steeper shoulder turn. Perhaps this would foster a more rounded move that sweeps the ball off the tee (?).

Earlier video I posted shows the lifting of the right foot (weight getting on to the toes) and we also see the pelvis lifting up and toward the ball. While my head doesn't move up a whole lot, a closer look does reveal a 'standing up' type move through the ball.

Other issues:

Club face almost always looks ok at the top of the swing. It is possible I am opening during the downswing, however. But that's likely due in part to my steep move from the start down. I did comment earlier about using twistaway as best I could to hit to the left - I can do this, repeatedly. I can miss the fairway, with ease, by nearly 100 yards with enough twist.

There appears to be some disconnect with my ability to control the face with the proper path. In my case, fixing the face simply isn't enough because even when I do that, I can't find the inside of the golf ball.

Erik

 

[Richie3Jack]

If you stand tall at address, you may want to cut your driver shaft down. When I spoke to a guy who work fitting Taylor Made PGA Tour staff players...he said he never fit anybody for a driver shaft longer than 45 inches long. Stand too tall with the driver, you don't get any waist bend and it can throw things off immediately by affecting hip turn, shoulder turn (and the plane of the shoulders), etc. I'm 6'4" tall and only use a 45 inch driver. Bubba uses a 44.75" driver.

My guess is from there the shaft plane is probably getting too steep on the way back and you struggle to consistently make the compensation in the downswing.





3JACK

 

[softconsult]

Here's what happened during my Mike Jacobs lesson. He showed me how steep I was coming into the ball. I was also outside-in by a bunch.
d on various things for 2 hours. The conclusion was that simply aiming more right and widening my stance solved the problem. I was steep, but have no sky marks on my Driver. It worked for me on his lesson tee. It works for me in play, when I remember to do it. When you widen your stance you either shallow your downswing path, or bury the club in the ground way behind the ball.

 

[Erik_K]

I am not opposed to the fitting (aside from not being able to afford it), however I may benefit from a shorter shaft and/or just choke down an inch - this may provide a bit more control right from the start.

I may see a clubfitter soon, but I don't want to go unless I have the funds available to actually purchase a driver. Usually custom drivers are in the $300-$500 range.

The more pressing issue is the steepness issue. It remains to be seen if the equipment is the culprit (unlikely IMO)...but I said this before I had my irons fit to me. My old set was at an inch too short (!).

Erik