Another shoulder downplane thread

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nevermind

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So, my understanding is that you've gotta have the trail shoulder working downplane at Start Down.. good, easy even I get that. BUT, for how much longer should it go downplane and does that vary according to which clubshaft plane you're using?

My thinking is that the steeper the clubshaft plane you use, the easier it is, or more able you are to keep the shoulder moving downplane longer. That is, if you have your forearm and clubshaft on the TSP at impact, by then (assuming you have some elbow bend) your trail shoulder would have to have moved above plane (offplane). But, if you're using any flatter clubshaft plane you'll be able to keep the trail shoulder moving downplane to impact and beyond.

To the question, we all know Homer preferred the TSP, but does the fact that you can continue to move your trail shoulder downplane longer when using any flatter clubshaft plane give those plane angles an advantage over the TSP? Also, if you are using the TSP, is it ok for the shoulder to move above plane right after Start Down or should you keep it on there a little longer?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
nevermind said:
My thinking is that the steeper the clubshaft plane you use, the easier it is, or more able you are to keep the shoulder moving downplane longer.
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Yes because you are bent over more thus requiring less hip slide and less axis tilt through the ball. The more you stand up (longer clubs) the more slide and tilt you need to keep that trail shoulder going downplane. I *believe* the right shoulder goes downplane to just before both arm straight position.

To the question, we all know Homer preferred the TSP, but does the fact that you can continue to move your trail shoulder downplane longer when using any flatter clubshaft plane give those plane angles an advantage over the TSP? Also, if you are using the TSP, is it ok for the shoulder to move above plane right after Start Down or should you keep it on there a little longer?
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elbow plane is the only flatter plane than the TSP that i know of, however everyone's "elbow plane" can vary due to the definition of it. Either way elbow plane uses get the shaft on plane earlier with the right forearm (usually) and you can create more trigger delay as well.

I would say the advantage isn't more trigger delay but getting the right forearm and clubshaft on plane sooner.
 
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nevermind

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jim_0068 said:
I *believe* the right shoulder goes downplane to just before both arm straight position.
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Jim, my problem is I don't see how, no matter what you do, you can have the right shoulder continue downplane that far if your right forearm and clubshaft are on the TSP. I've tried to draw stickman doing just that, but cant. I've looked for evidence in swing clips, but haven't found any. So in light of that I have to think that when using the TSP, you just cant keep the trail shoulder moving downplane for that long.

Would love to hear from Brian on this.
 
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nevermind

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Brian?

If you use the Turned Shoulder Plane how long should you expect to keep the trail shoulder moving downplane? Can you keep it moving downplane further when using a flatter clubshaft plane angle?
 
rwh

rwh

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Looking at some professional swings on my cSwing program, it looks as though the right shoulder works downplane until somewhere between the follow-through and clubshaft parallel to the ground.
 
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Spike

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Wouldn't it be fair to say that the right shoulder moving down plane (and for how long) is a response to how the hands move down out and through?

No matter what club you are using.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
I am ready for ya...

Just tell me WHY you want the answer, and I'll post some pictures and explain it all to you.

(Please understand, Lots of stuff went on here and I do not want to help for the wrong reasons)
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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Brian Manzella said:
Just tell me WHY you want the answer, and I'll post some pictures and explain it all to you.

(Please understand, Lots of stuff went on here and I do not want to help for the wrong reasons)
Click to expand...

Brian,

I would be interested in this answer since I swing up and down the TSP, but have a very hard time driving the right shoulder down (and not out). Any help here would be appreciated.
 
D

DOCW3

New
TSP Role

Is the role of the TSP different for Single Shift and Double Shift? Or, should the right Shoulder move on the TSP in the downstroke if the hands are returning to the Elbow Plane?

DRW
 
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nevermind

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Brian, for the same reason I've been asking questions along these lines for over a year. I'm confused.

I bring the clubshaft down the TSP, although I wish I didn't, and don't know for how long I should be able to keep the trail shoulder moving downplane (TSP). I've come to the conclusion that without having a straight right arm at impact, I cannot have the trail shoulder continue downplane very far past the startdown at all, no matter how much axis tilt I have. Now, this doesn't gell with what I read about keeping the trail shoulder moving downplane all the way to the end of the follow through. So I wonder if I'm missing something. Assuming that I'm not, I wonder then if this is not a downside to using the acclaimed Turned Shoulder Plane. Maybe I would be better off doing the hard yards and creating a plane shift in the downstroke...?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Gotcha.

Will post some video soon.

Not and easy explaination.

For now, just get the club started with the shoulder going downplane, then just rotate.
 
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