Anti-Summit/Manzella Symposium Topic Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

spmurph

New
I would love to hear more about this topic. I was going to propose a question on this in the Anti-Summit thread but I couldn't get one together that was scientifically specific.
 
C

caedus

Guest
bet you wouldn't want that expert at the summit, credit to mankinds objective research and development
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

New
caedus said:
bet you wouldn't want that expert at the summit, credit to mankinds objective research and development
Click to expand...

i don't know if you could be any more wrong if you tried....we want everybody there....if s&t has benefits like van biezen says than it deserves some credit....and discussion

eightiron/caedus....why do you doubt our objective?

update: this just in - brian is at the amf summit also and he said at first van biezen said that many of the stack&tilters he saw had bad backs...there was subsequent nervousness from the organizers of the event...and then dave phillips stood up in attempt to save van biezen by explaining that s&t does not promote a reverse pivot and how the waist and spine bends actually worked....30 minutes later, graham asked his "best biomechanical swing" question and van biezen said stack & tilt....sounds confusing to me - but again, caedus is wrong because if van biezen wants to come to phoenix to say what he actually means, then he would be quite welcome...
 
C

caedus

Guest
Michael Finney said:
i don't know if you could be any more wrong if you tried....we want everybody there....if s&t has benefits like van biezen says than it deserves some credit....and discussion

eightiron/caedus....why do you doubt our objective?

update: this just in - brian is at the amf summit also and he said at first van biezen said that many of the stack&tilters he saw had bad backs...there was subsequent nervousness from the organizers of the event...and then dave phillips stood up in attempt to save van biezen by explaining that s&t does not promote a reverse pivot and how the waist and spine bends actually worked....30 minutes later, graham asked his "best biomechanical swing" question and van biezen said stack & tilt....sounds confusing to me - but again, caedus is wrong because if van biezen wants to come to phoenix to say what he actually means, then he would be quite welcome...
Click to expand...

John Graham seemed to have a different view in that the teachers there were on about tilting left towards the target, so they had to have the pivot explained to them

Personally I couldn't care less whether van biezen is right or wrong, its the irony of the situation that amuses me

Seriously WTF , you have the kangaroo Dr Neal who wrote a beat up article on stack and tilt ( with mclean) claimng all sorts of stuff, how bad it is etc etc and this is the same bloke pissing in mclean's pocket saying the x-factor is the goods
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

New
caedus said:
John Graham seemed to have a different view in that the teachers there were on about tilting left towards the target, so they had to have the pivot explained to them

Personally I couldn't care less whether van biezen is right or wrong, its the irony of the situation that amuses me

Seriously WTF , you have the kangaroo Dr Neal who wrote a beat up article on stack and tilt ( with mclean) claimng all sorts of stuff, how bad it is etc etc and this is the same bloke pissing in mclean's pocket saying the x-factor is the goods
Click to expand...

are your feelings hurt that dr. neal wrote that article? isn't it ironic that he's in direct contrast to van biezen?
the only people who would be nervous about the situation would be the ones that have an agenda - we don't have one - although you would like to think we do.....as a matter of fact, i think it's funny how upset you are that neal took us up on the invite after phil cheetham had to withdraw his name...when you have your own symposium, be sure to invite everyone, ok?

who are you anyway?
 
ZAP

ZAP

New
This is a very interesting question. If I had to guess I would say you have to make some concessions away from optimum to make it "easy" on the body.

Wish I was able to make it to the symposium.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Michael Finney said:
are your feelings hurt that dr. neal wrote that article? isn't it ironic that he's in direct contrast to van biezen?
the only people who would be nervous about the situation would be the ones that have an agenda - we don't have one - although you would like to think we do.....as a matter of fact, i think it's funny how upset you are that neal took us up on the invite after phil cheetham had to withdraw his name...when you have your own symposium, be sure to invite everyone, ok?

who are you anyway?
Click to expand...

He is just a wacko from Manilla, The Phillipines. He goes on all the forums. Lets move on and discuss something constructive.
 
C

caedus

Guest
Steve Khatib said:
He is just a wacko from Manilla, The Phillipines. He goes on all the forums. Lets move on and discuss something constructive.
Click to expand...

No , I'm from the star wars galaxy , how about yourself khatib, are you a big somebody in golf in australia who never qualified for the tour down under
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Credit to you Darth you don't give up easy. That's solid.

Obviously you don't think much before you talk though.

Either that or you really aren't as interested in winning debates as you are in being a troll. (errr...Sith Lord)
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
To move on to something of importance (and back on topic)...

I will say I notice that if I sway my hips in the backswing I occasionally get a twinge in my lower back...

(ala Freddie Couples...unfortunately on both points I believe)

Using more of my right side intentionally these days...not so much "left shoulder up" (thinking that and trying consciously to do it) to hit it in the downswing.

I will see if my neck feels a little better. (has been sore esp. in the left side)
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Great article- thanks AC. Funny stuff...

Separate from the apparent confusion (and conflicting statements) at the event this sentence does make sense to me:

"One of the big areas Dr. Van Biezen mentioned that contributed to a great many injuries was the combination of reverse pivot in the backswing and reverse ‘C’ position in the follow through."

I honestly haven't spent nearly as much time as some trying out this move (I have not been as interested) so I don't have much experience with pain from it. But common to a move like Freddie Couples', you will need a lot of hip slide in the downswing...if you want axis tilt that is.

(and you probably should...)
 
Last edited:
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
caedus said:
No , I'm from the star wars galaxy , how about yourself khatib, are you a big somebody in golf in australia who never qualified for the tour down under
Click to expand...

No chips on my shoulders as such. I would just like troublemakers who cant debate or discuss topics on this forum such as yourself to be exposed from hiding being stage names. Grow up and discuss and debate like a gentleman or go elsewhere.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
A Different Perspective....

spmurph said:
I would love to hear more about this topic. I was going to propose a question on this in the Anti-Summit thread but I couldn't get one together that was scientifically specific.
Click to expand...

It isn't a "Science" discussion, and we will not discuss "fitness" issues at my Symposium.

There is already a "World Fitness Summit," and the S&Ters are speaking.

So it sure will come up there.

caedus said:
bet you wouldn't want that expert at the summit, credit to mankinds objective research and development
Click to expand...

We want to talk about science, nobody else is doing a symposium like it.

caedus said:
John Graham seemed to have a different view....
Click to expand...

The video from this will explain it better than I can if it is not edited.

Here is EXACTLY what happened...

The Chiropractor/Physical Therapist said he had seen a lot of S&T students on TOUR, and they all had back issues.

Almost immediately, Dave Phillips of TPI jumped up out of the audience in a Kanye West moment, and "corrected" the expert saying that S&T was not a reverse pivot.

The Chiropractor/Physical Therapist had said noting about WHAT the S&T pattern was, so why did Phillips jump up so fast?

He is the head of the TPI Fitness Summit, and the S&Ters are presenting, and he was protecting his "ball sales."

So to speak.

At the end of the talk, the Chiropractor/Physical Therapist was asked BY JOHN GRAHAM this:

(paraphrased) "Technique aside, what method is the easiest on the back mechanically?"

The Chiropractor/Physical Therapist said.....after deliberating for a long time, "S&T if done correctly."

It was very odd to say the least, but not surprising in a teaching world where EVERYONE BLOWS YOU UP BEHIND YOUR BACK, but nobody has the balls to do it in front of you or an audience.

And that's a fact, Jack.

caedus said:
Seriously WTF , you have the kangaroo Dr Neal who wrote a beat up article on stack and tilt ( with mclean) claimng all sorts of stuff, how bad it is etc etc and this is the same bloke pissing in mclean's pocket saying the x-factor is the goods
Click to expand...

First of all, you guys have never seen Neal in person, or asked hm about his stuff in person, or seen him at work.

That shoe is now on the other foot. ;)

Anyhoo, there are four world-renown experts in golf bio-dynamics:

Phil Cheetham, Greg Rose, Rob Neal, and Chris Welch.

We originally had Phil and he couldn't make it, so we almost asked Chris Welch but he was out of the country, but I decided on Dr. Neal becuase we had communicated in the past on my TrackMan HSP-to-3D machine alignment theory.

Now, I haven't read Dr. Neal's paper, but, I like the fact that he has a willingness to speak his mind and back it up with science.

The point of this symposium is for the scientists to BE CHALLENGED. Otherwise, it is just another boring seminar.

Anyone is welcome to take their best shot at Rob, and I am sure he welcomes it.

On the other hand, you guys NEVER want, and NEVER DO "debate" anyone.

You can show up, or I'll ask the questions for you.

Eyeoffish said:
This is a very interesting question. If I had to guess I would say you have to make some concessions away from optimum to make it "easy" on the body.
Click to expand...

I have a new pattern that I am working on at the request of GTE member who asked me to develop an "easy on the older body" pattern.

It is called "Easy Does It."

It don't look like anything we are discussing, or anything you have seen from me.

birdie_man said:
Great article- thanks AC. Funny stuff...

Separate from the apparent confusion (and conflicting statements) at the event this sentence does make sense to me:

"One of the big areas Dr. Van Biezen mentioned that contributed to a great many injuries was the combination of reverse pivot in the backswing and reverse ‘C’ position in the follow through."
Click to expand...

Yup.

:D
 
C

caedus

Guest
Brian Manzella said:
It isn't a "Science" discussion, and we will not discuss "fitness" issues at my Symposium.

There is already a "World Fitness Summit," and the S&Ters are speaking.

So it sure will come up there.



We want to talk about science, nobody else is doing a symposium like it.



The video from this will explain it better than I can if it is not edited.

Here is EXACTLY what happened...

The Chiropractor/Physical Therapist said he had seen a lot of S&T students on TOUR, and they all had back issues.

Almost immediately, Dave Phillips of TPI jumped up out of the audience in a Kanye West moment, and "corrected" the expert saying that S&T was not a reverse pivot.

The Chiropractor/Physical Therapist had said noting about WHAT the S&T pattern was, so why did Phillips jump up so fast?

He is the head of the TPI Fitness Summit, and the S&Ters are presenting, and he was protecting his "ball sales."

So to speak.

At the end of the talk, the Chiropractor/Physical Therapist was asked BY JOHN GRAHAM this:

(paraphrased) "Technique aside, what method is the easiest on the back mechanically?"

The Chiropractor/Physical Therapist said.....after deliberating for a long time, "S&T if done correctly."

It was very odd to say the least, but not surprising in a teaching world where EVERYONE BLOWS YOU UP BEHIND YOUR BACK, but nobody has the balls to do it in front of you or an audience.

And that's a fact, Jack.



First of all, you guys have never seen Neal in person, or asked hm about his stuff in person, or seen him at work.

That shoe is now on the other foot. ;)

Anyhoo, there are four world-renown experts in golf bio-dynamics:

Phil Cheetham, Greg Rose, Rob Neal, and Chris Welch.

We originally had Phil and he couldn't make it, so we almost asked Chris Welch but he was out of the country, but I decided on Dr. Neal becuase we had communicated in the past on my TrackMan HSP-to-3D machine alignment theory.

Now, I haven't read Dr. Neal's paper, but, I like the fact that he has a willingness to speak his mind and back it up with science.

The point of this symposium is for the scientists to BE CHALLENGED. Otherwise, it is just another boring seminar.

Anyone is welcome to take their best shot at Rob, and I am sure he welcomes it.

On the other hand, you guys NEVER want, and NEVER DO "debate" anyone.

You can show up, or I'll ask the questions for you.



I have a new pattern that I am working on at the request of GTE member who asked me to develop an "easy on the older body" pattern.

It is called "Easy Does It."

It don't look like anything we are discussing, or anything you have seen from me.



Yup.

:D
Click to expand...

So the expert Dr whatever his name is was really just polishing snt backside for them , but behind the scenes he was saying check out the Manzella Matrix or Mcleans X-factor for the optimal performing pivot train?

Heck by next week ,with some added twisting, he will have said snt is the worst performing pivot and players are ending up in wheelchairs, those sntilters just can't win

And next time when you are presenting , the matrix will get the gong for optimal swing/pivot but behind the scenes they will be whispering to the next mob " honestly , its crap , your stuff is the best ".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top