Are they basically all the same?

[Keefer]

Manzella's Twistaway, Dante's Magic Move and Miller's Right Wrist Anti-Slice, and other current pros counter rotation moves moves.

All but Dante's early right wrist hinge (bent backwards) could be interpreted as more of a counter clockwise move of the right wrist somewhere during the swing. Dante's is advocated early and Miller's is just before impact. Manzella's and others moves seem to work anytime during the backswing (early or late).

Also, would pre-setting the club-head in a toe-in position at address accomplish the same result, assuming it's held throughout the swing? It would seem to pre-set the wrists in the same postion.

Assuming a neutral grip all put the left wrist in a flatter position at the top and if held thru impact would help square the face along with putting the wrists in a better position at impact.

So, is it all basically semantics or are there any significant differences between these seemingly simliar moves? For example would making this move either earlier or later alter the plane or path more?

Any thoughts?

 

[finncox]

I do find it interesting how similar some of Miller's advice is to Brian's NSA advice. He clearly knows that the open face is the number one cause of the slice, and it causes all of the compensations such as OTT, or hanging back. While he may call it something different, or describe it in different terms, Miller is essentially addressing the same thing that Twistaway does.......a clubface that won't automatically square itself, and remains open coming down for a slicer.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The Answer is NO!!!

The twistaway addresses two of the three ways to keep the clubface from opening, and to make it close more if necessary, on the downswing.

It is NOTHING LIKE ANYONE ELSE'S STUFF!!!!!

The through position is basically Ben Doyle, but the backswing stuff is VERY DIFFERENT, especially NSA "3" style like in my Golf Channel Video.

That's why we believe we have the anti-slice solution ever.

 

[finncox]

T
The through position is basically Ben Doyle, but the backswing stuff is VERY DIFFERENT, especially NSA "3" style like in my Golf Channel Video.

You're re-doing NSA as a 3rd version???? Even though I'm not a huge slicer, I'll probably buy it, as well as any other videos that you re-do. Will it address more D-plane stuff, etc., or will there be other changes?

 

[Keefer]

I hope you could please elaborate a little more. It just seems to me that all these moves are somewhat similar with either a counter clockwise move or bending back of the right wrist somewhere in the swing.

I suffer with carpal tunnel (pinched nerve) in my wrists and getting a flat left wrist thru bending the right wrist back thus bending the left wrist down can be painful. In one of your videos the visual I took away from the Twistaway move looked more like a counter clockwise rotation of the right wrist rather than Dante's right wrist hinge (bending back).

That's the reason for my question. Your Twistaway move seems like it would be better on my wrists than Dante's. Your move seems more of a counter clockwise rotation or "twisting away" of the right wrist rather than bending. Even your terminology and use of the word "Twistaway" sounds more like a twisting of the right wrist counter clockwise, rather than a bending back of the right wrist.

Again, I'm just searching for an easier way of getting my clubface more square and is easier on my carpal tunnel with my wrists. I see your Twistaway or turning of my right wrist counter clockwise as easier on my wrists.

After-all if bending the right wrist back was what you wanted your student to do instead of twisting the right wrist counter clockwise when you discovered the term "Twistaway" I would've thought the student would've said you want me to bend my wrist. But he didn't say bend, he said twist, thus I'm going on the assumption that your "Twistaway" will be easier on my carpal tunnel with my wrists.

Just looking for a better way that works for me and it would seem your Twistaway move would cause less pain that the others. At least that's my initial take with limited experience with these moves.

 

[spmurph]

You're re-doing NSA as a 3rd version???? Even though I'm not a huge slicer, I'll probably buy it, as well as any other videos that you re-do. Will it address more D-plane stuff, etc., or will there be other changes?

I believe he is saying that the info contained in his audition video could be called NSA "3" since it discusses the twistaway as well as LAFW rotation.

For me personally, I beat my slice once I understood LAFW rotation.

 

[dbl]

It just seems to me ....bending back of the right wrist....

To me, NSA is not a bending back of the right wrist. Come on, tons of pros/methods have had that.

A friend of mine just 2 weeks ago picked up a Dante book and used that step and sliced it off the planet.

 

[Keefer]

To me, NSA is not a bending back of the right wrist. Come on, tons of pros/methods have had that.

A friend of mine just 2 weeks ago picked up a Dante book and used that step and sliced it off the planet.

The Twistaway visual description I've seen Brian Manzella do doesn't look like a bending, but I believe I've heard an audio of Brian Manzella describing the move and he does say it's a bending of the right wrist. That's one of the reasons for my post. I could be wrong on that though (just going by memory).

Johnny Miller did use an early right wrist hinge similar to Dante's describes when he played. The Miller tip I'm referencing is Miller's anti-slice video advocating a slight down-turn (counter clockwise) of the right hand just before impact. He says you can accomplish the same result by supinating the left wrist also.

Miller says most slicers come in sideways (hands) to impact and need to get the left thumb pointing at the ball instead of behind it.

Anyway, I'm just looking for the best way with my carpal tunnel condition.

 

[spmurph]

Do you own Never Slice Again? If not, watching it would be a great place to start.

 

[Keefer]

As mentioned in my original post, I haven't seen too much discussed about the toe-in theory to help with a slice. There was a study a few years back by a professor at a college in North Carolina (I believe) that studied several anti-slice remedies with real life slicers. His results showed the best results were the toe-in fix and the split grip drill.

When I toe-in my club-head at address, I'm basically doing a pre-set counter clockwise move with my wrists. That would seem to be a similar move as Twistaway. One is closing the face during the swing and the other is closing the face before you start the swing.

 

[spmurph]

Do you own Never Slice Again? If not, watching it would be a great place to start.

That question was for you Keefer.

The video is based on thousands of hours of teaching "real life slicers". There are ten things in the video that help a slicer. Closing the face at address is not one of them. But if it helps you, why not stick with it?

 

[Shot Limit]

Big difference between pre shot adjustment and an in-swing process.

 

[Keefer]

That question was for you Keefer.

The video is based on thousands of hours of teaching "real life slicers". There are ten things in the video that help a slicer. Closing the face is not one of them. But if it helps you, why not stick with it?

No I haven't, but I've seen most of Brain Manzella's videos on the interent and here on this forum. From what I've seen and read I like his teaching philosophy. It's similar to Butch Harmons (not one set of fundamentals that fit everyone) No method. Basically just fix'em. I like that.

Up until I read about the D Plane I always wondered how I was a slicer. I purchased the Training Aid Inside Approach and never hit the cushion, yet sliced. Everything you read about a slicer says they have to be an outside to in / steep / over the top swinger of the club. Yet I still sliced without hitting the cushion.

Anyway, I'm a little cautious about buying products that tout absolute fixes. I may purchase his video, but thought I might ask a few questions first. Have to find a way to get my club in a good posirion without causing pain in my wrists.

With carpal tunnel once that nerve gets pinched it affects how you do things. Need to find a better way.

 

[potterphd]

Keefer, I understand your apprehension when it comes to buying golf crap that doesn't work. Lord knows I've got hundreds of dollars worth of doohickeys laying around. However, I spent 16 years slicing, trying all of the hints from the golf mags and accomplishing nothing but frustration. I somehow made it here, bought never slice again and after one watching have literally never sliced again. You just HAVE to buy it.

People always talk about that stat that the average handicap has stayed the same for forever. If every golfer were required to watch this video before playing, that number would drop like a rock.

Anyway, buy it. If it doesn't work for you, PM me and I'll pay pal you the $20.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Anyway, buy it. If it doesn't work for you, PM me and I'll pay pal you the $20.

If that isn't the best endorsement i don't know what is. A purchaser giving you a GUARANTEE. And to your original question, no the twist-away is rather unique.

 

[Rick Dandy]

Not Only The Slicer

Please explain the unforseen uses of The Manzella Twistaway. Not just for slicers.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Please explain the unforseen uses of The Manzella Twistaway. Not just for slicers.

people who flip
people who hook the ball
people who have throwaway

goes on and on

 

[ZAP]

Just buy all the videos. It will increase your knowledge of the golf swing and help you put all this stuff together. You will waste more money that it costs on eating fast "food" in the next year. At least the videos will not give you the squirts.

I have them all and watch them regularly.

 

[Keefer]

If that isn't the best endorsement i don't know what is. A purchaser giving you a GUARANTEE. And to your original question, no the twist-away is rather unique.

So what your saying is the Twistaway that is described in more than one of his videos that I've seen is so vague that I need to see it explained in more depth to understand it's unique-ness? This one move sounds like a cure-all for several swing maladies.

Has Brian or any of his instructors ever seen someone who could not physically do the Twistaway because of certain wrist conditions? Specifically someone with carpal tunnel which is a common injury with golf?

Again, I'm trying to understand whether the move is more bending or twisting of the wrist because of my carpal tunnel. Dante's early wrist hinge is a non-starter as it has too much early bend and pinches the median nerve in my wrist. As I've said the name Twistaway would indicate more twist than bend which for someone like me would seem to work better with my condition. The videos I've seen would help validate that also.

Anyway, I can appreciate the vagueness so as to not give away too much info for free. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Anyway, I can appreciate the vagueness so as to not give away too much info for free. Thanks for all the replies.

Geez....

Try this....

Any grip....

Get a driver with 10° or less>one with a face a different color or finish than the rest of the head>by the time the club is half-way back, you have to not be able to see the face when you look toward it by turning you head, by way of turing the shaft counter-clockwise until this occurs>for the rest of the swing—the WHOLE swing—you need to not be able to see the face, but at impact have your body and arms and hands in a position so that the clubface is dead square>remember. through the ball turning the face by way of turning the shaft about itself is as much important as the backswing and downswing.

Hope this is sufficient.