Ball Position for the new release?
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Svenster
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I've been wondering the same thing and may even have asked the same question here, without getting a bite either, but will try saying it now a different way, "Does the "new" science as it pertains to the new release lean towards a recommended ball position or positions or is it still something that everyone has to figure out for themselves by trial and error?"
The "crickets" could signify any number of things, but my guess is that folks on the forum either have no idea, are tired of seeing questions related to ball position (even if it's in relation to the new release) or that everyone thinks that the answer (i.e. figure it out for yourself - like everybody else has to do) is considered so self-evident that nobody's interested in offering up an opinion or theory.
FWIW, I have yet to figure out my own optimal ball position no matter what release I'm trying, my same old or the new release. I have had some semblance of consistency in the past using the Hogan/Nicklaus ball position concept (basically ball in same spot in relation to front foot/heel for all shots) but that's just me trying the KISS system.
My 2 cents. Anyone got a dollar?
The "crickets" could signify any number of things, but my guess is that folks on the forum either have no idea, are tired of seeing questions related to ball position (even if it's in relation to the new release) or that everyone thinks that the answer (i.e. figure it out for yourself - like everybody else has to do) is considered so self-evident that nobody's interested in offering up an opinion or theory.
FWIW, I have yet to figure out my own optimal ball position no matter what release I'm trying, my same old or the new release. I have had some semblance of consistency in the past using the Hogan/Nicklaus ball position concept (basically ball in same spot in relation to front foot/heel for all shots) but that's just me trying the KISS system.
My 2 cents. Anyone got a dollar?
What "new" release?
jk
I kind of have been figuring it out on my own and so far have found that the "traditional" ball positions for the differing club lengths have worked well. Like middle of the stance for wedges to 9, couple inches forward of that for the 8-6 and so on. But, finally realizing how to actually use the arms and hands makes it a lot easier to hit the ball well with any ball position that is reasonable.
jk
I kind of have been figuring it out on my own and so far have found that the "traditional" ball positions for the differing club lengths have worked well. Like middle of the stance for wedges to 9, couple inches forward of that for the 8-6 and so on. But, finally realizing how to actually use the arms and hands makes it a lot easier to hit the ball well with any ball position that is reasonable.
Using less of a pivot I thought the ball might need to be back more. I traditionally have the ball near the left heel or back a bit. Never right of center. With this new material, I tried the ball at center of my stance and even more right, but could not make it work, so I eased the ball up near where I used to play, and that still is about the right place. It may be I get about the same axis tilt as before out without a huge pivot that handle dragging needed...so perhaps the free wheeling club brings the body along.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Ball position is soooo individual. A lot, for me, depends on what shot you are playing.
Matt 4-L
New
I have been using the release and I only move the ball for say a low draw I put it back from my normal position and move it forward for a high fade. I play the ball pretty traditional, middle for short irons, slightly forward of center for longer irons, a ball or so inside my left heel for 3 wood and for the driver I play it around the middle of my left foot, thats really the only club that is not in a traditional place but I was playing it there before I started working on all the release stuff, I can simply hit the ball farther because I can hit up on it better.
drewyallop
New
Probably not relevant, but I think I remember Paul Woods saying at ASII that their goal is to fit irons so that they can all be hit from the middle of the stance.
Here we go again. Ball position is aim. Do the ruler test: Get a flexible ruler and marble. Put the marble in front of the ruler, pull the ruler back and see where the marble goes every time. Now pull the ruler back a little, place the marble and hit the marble again. The marble goes to the right every time. Next move the marble in front of the ruler and hit it. The marble goes left every time. Explain to me how the ball will go straight with all the clubs from a center ball position. Why do the manufactures adjust the ball position with each club to get the ball to fly straight? Golf is what the brain/body, club and ball do to produce the appropriate ball flight. We have left out the ball and ball position out of the research.
jimmyt
New
I'm not an instructor, however have studied all of the information provided on this site. The "Ideas about the New Release" should not have changed anything regarding a players ball position. Regardless of release method wasn't the "D" plane and shot shape desired always the determining factor of ball position.
Hopefully worth slightly more than 2 cents
Hopefully worth slightly more than 2 cents
dschultz6072
New
The lie dictates everything.
S
SteveT
Guest
Now all the poop is starting to fly out of Pandora's Scientific Box of confusion ... I knew it would happen.
You just can't look at the ball position in relation to the final release of the arms, hands and club... you must look at the ENTIRE SYSTEM... and that means the body and footwork too.... because everything has an influence on impact.
If you think you've achieved a "new" release action based on an optimized kinematic and kinetic sequencing, you will be determining, by trial and error and error and error, where your new ball positions must be. Okay, and if you get improved results with your old ball positions, something may be wrong and you are not aware of what you are doing differently. That's the problem with a homemade golfswing... you just can't be 100% or even 50% certain if you are doing things as you intended. But if you're happy ....
Those that claim they implemented swing changes on their own and now have improved ball results are lucky or talking out of ignorance. The only certain way to create changes to your golfswing is with an objective instructor who can see the "before and after" results... and verify it with radar data. Otherwise your results are anecdotal.... even though you may think they are scientifically acquired.
Good scientific luck .....
You just can't look at the ball position in relation to the final release of the arms, hands and club... you must look at the ENTIRE SYSTEM... and that means the body and footwork too.... because everything has an influence on impact.
If you think you've achieved a "new" release action based on an optimized kinematic and kinetic sequencing, you will be determining, by trial and error and error and error, where your new ball positions must be. Okay, and if you get improved results with your old ball positions, something may be wrong and you are not aware of what you are doing differently. That's the problem with a homemade golfswing... you just can't be 100% or even 50% certain if you are doing things as you intended. But if you're happy ....
Those that claim they implemented swing changes on their own and now have improved ball results are lucky or talking out of ignorance. The only certain way to create changes to your golfswing is with an objective instructor who can see the "before and after" results... and verify it with radar data. Otherwise your results are anecdotal.... even though you may think they are scientifically acquired.
Good scientific luck .....
Don't be so singularly focused SteveT, at least not for my sake.
Consider a person has a method and a ball position as case A.
In Case B, then, in changing to say the "New Release" and using no ball, impact location with the ground can be found. I would posit that there are many people skilled enough to buy one of Brian's video for instance and duplicate Brian's desired pattern on his own. Nothing homegrown about that, other than the non-instructor attempt in regarding the change.
Consider a person has a method and a ball position as case A.
In Case B, then, in changing to say the "New Release" and using no ball, impact location with the ground can be found. I would posit that there are many people skilled enough to buy one of Brian's video for instance and duplicate Brian's desired pattern on his own. Nothing homegrown about that, other than the non-instructor attempt in regarding the change.
Now all the poop is starting to fly out of Pandora's Scientific Box of confusion ... I knew it would happen.
You just can't look at the ball position in relation to the final release of the arms, hands and club... you must look at the ENTIRE SYSTEM... and that means the body and footwork too.... because everything has an influence on impact.
If you think you've achieved a "new" release action based on an optimized kinematic and kinetic sequencing, you will be determining, by trial and error and error and error, where your new ball positions must be. Okay, and if you get improved results with your old ball positions, something may be wrong and you are not aware of what you are doing differently. That's the problem with a homemade golfswing... you just can't be 100% or even 50% certain if you are doing things as you intended. But if you're happy ....
Those that claim they implemented swing changes on their own and now have improved ball results are lucky or talking out of ignorance. The only certain way to create changes to your golfswing is with an objective instructor who can see the "before and after" results... and verify it with radar data. Otherwise your results are anecdotal.... even though you may think they are scientifically acquired.
Good scientific luck .....
When my swing style changed so did my low-point. With some applied effort and experimentation, a new ball position range was determined. There wasn't any luck or any delusion involved. When the results satisfy, all is good. There was a intellectual learning, followed by muscle learning, followed by experimental learning, but none of this can take the science out of the new swing. Some are paralyzed with analysis, but not all, there are other ways to proceed forwards, one is to go ahead and experiment, then step back and adjust with the newly learned knowledge.
You are only referencing one of the variables responsible for ball flight. Manufacturers use a machine that is stationary. Golfers are more unstable and move their bodies during the swing that changes low point, club face angle, swing path...
Do you want to be more stable or less stable during the golf swing? If you have to make a compensation because of ball position you are more unstale. I realize the brain is a wonderful thing but would'nt we want it to work easier rather than hander during the swing. Still looking for some scientific answers.
S
SteveT
Guest
As a Florida golf pro, it would be interesting to hear how you decide on ball position for:
• Driver -- from the tee for straight, fades, draws
• Fairway -- from the low rough and fairways
• Long irons -- from the fairway and traps
• Short irons and wedges -- for various distances and trajectories
• Sand wedge -- for various lies in bunkers and sand conditions.
Thanks in advance.... and I assure you I am not vacillating between definitive elucidations and naive curiosity.
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By unstable I was not only referring to the golfer being able to move their center of gravity through swaying, but also by being able to change the launch conditions for their desired ball flight through changing their arm/hand motions--not just by changing ball position. Of course you are right in that the golfer should not have to make compensations just because their ball position isn't conducive for the type of shot they want to play.
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