Barry Bonds, Marion Jones......?

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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
In the wake of the Marion Jones scandal, I began to wonder. Barry Bonds was already a 4 time MVP before BALCO. Jones was a dominant sprinter her whole life(unlike FloJo) before BALCO. These 2 great athletes had a common quest, to chase all time historic marks in their sport. Our sport has one, too. While I remain optimistic, it still gets you wondering if it is totally inconceivable that there might be a little help in there somewhere. I hope not, I wouldn't want to know anyway.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I don't really see the usefulness of steroids in golf. Especially for someone that plays a limited schedule.

Exactly, however the guys who tend to play more events and need the extra time to "recover" different types of performance enhancers will help greatly with this.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I wouldn't underestimate the value of performance enhancers in golf. All the apologists for baseball players say it doesn't help with hand eye coordination...but explain the surge in power in the 90's. Same with golf.It might not help your short game, but here's a quote from Golf Digest this month: "Small doses of impact drugs- HGH, things like that-...builds explosive muscles, which is what all golfers want."
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
MEH.

I don't see this ever becoming a problem in golf.

I'm sorry to bore you. I think it's pretty naive to think everyone in professional golf is clean. To those that are still in competitive play, it's very obvious the benefits of strength in the modern game. With such a small window to earn,and the competition so fierce, if it isn't happening now,it will. Bank on it.
 

Chris Sturgess

New member
Doubled, can you break 90 dude? You don't know what you're talking about. Strength does very little for a person in golf. It's all technique. Look at Davis Love, the guy is weak as hell and could bomb it over 300 for his whole career even when he used wooden drivers. Steroids would hurt a golfer more than help him. You don't want to be explosive physically when playing golf you want to be explosive with the clubhead which is a technique issue not strength, that quote from golf magazine was dumb. Don't believe everything you read in a magazine. Steroids would probably make someone too hyped up to pitch and putt, and would hurt performing under pressure. In baseball accuracy means nothing, you can hit foul balls and the outfield is really wide. And the ball and bat are bigger and heavier which brings strength much more into play. Sports where running and jumping are involved of course steroids help a lot. They can test all they want, but this is a silly issue.

You are probably just reacting to bs put forth by Gary Player who is semi crazy and out of pure jealousy would like to see Tiger's records discredited like Bonds and McGwire's. Gary Player knows nothing about steroids, he mentioned creatine in the same breath, and you take creatine everytime you eat meat or fish.

If Tiger is on performance enhancing drugs, they definitely are not steroids.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Who said anything about steriods? There are countless designer drugs other than steriods.You all are thinking of just the ones that pack on tons of muscle. I was more reacting to the Marion Jones story....and yes, i can break 90, and 80, and 70.....dude.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
....and it's you who doesn't know anything. Davis Love is a terrible example. Tiger early in his career had the same "flash" lag and whip speed the Love had. The strength comes into play on shots like stingers, heavy rough, buried lies.How about the ability to train longer for endurance, like Jim said? It's more like, can you break 90?
 
Steroids would hurt a golfer more than help him. You don't want to be explosive physically when playing golf you want to be explosive with the clubhead which is a technique issue not strength, that quote from golf magazine was dumb. Don't believe everything you read in a magazine. Steroids would probably make someone too hyped up to pitch and putt, and would hurt performing under pressure.

A common misconception: steroids build fast-twitch muscles and add lots of bulk to an athelete. Ahh, no. If this were true, it'd be hard to explain why steroids are most pervasive in the sport of cycling.

Steroids could certainly help you in golf, and don't doubt that there are at least a few people using them. Gary Player was way off in his assessment of the situation, but that doesn't mean it just isn't there.
 
steroids that can build big bulky muscles: no good for golf. steroids that can build enhancement in long lean flexible muscular endurance very good for golf. whether it is being used is a mystery for now. people say steroids and think big muscular frames. you can take steroids and build muscle endurance. problems that may occur is the price you may pay. (on the tour initials J.G, torn tendon in elbow????) conspiracy maybe so.

I am not saying at all that Villegas did steroids but use him as an example, would you rather have a frame like Tim Herron or Villegas who is very muscular, flexible and plenty of endurance. muscles are very good for golf when they are trained the right way, you dont want the big bulky ones (slow twich) you want the long lean ones that olympic athletes strive for the fast twich fibers than can create more clubhead speed.

slow twich: arnold swartchnegga
fast twich: lance armstrong
 
Using steriods or not, the type of body you develop will depend on your training regimen. The amount of weight, sets, and reps you do have a drastic effect on the type of body you will build. Steriods will help either way, especially with recovery. You don't just take steriods and become a bulky monster. Look at Floyd Landis? He look big?

I don't think Tiger is taking steriods, but to pretend like they wouldn't help a golfer is just not a true statement. They certainly wouldn't hurt.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Strength in Golf.

Strength doesn't matter in golf??

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Sure, some guys have "golf strength" without weightlifting or 'roids, but with all the money involved, there is ZERO chance that the amount of use is ZERO.

I have a "little bit more than a little" golf technique knowledge. I can hit almost any shot. But put me in US Open rough, and it is life and death to wedge it back in play.

And Chris, btw, one day, when we have a BrianManzela.com Open, doubled will be one of the favorites.
 

nwb

New
When considering whether strength is needed in golf ask yourself - why do all the pro's workout now? Yes Tiger started the working out era but strength has always been important (Jack, Arnie and even Hogan for a small man).

So if strength is important in golf and working out makes you stronger then it stands to reason that any substance that helps your workouts will help your golf.

People think that steroids make you big - genes play a big role in how big one can get - but regardless there are many different types of performance enhancing drugs out there, not just growth enhancing ones. It is niave to think some golfers are not taking them IMO.
 
I don't even understand why people bother arguing about this.

In an era when many sports have pervasive steroids and performance-enhancing usage, why not take steps towards protecting the integrity of a sport we all love dearly.

The fact that "golf is a gentleman's game" doesn't die with steroid testing.
 

Chris Sturgess

New member
A common misconception: steroids build fast-twitch muscles and add lots of bulk to an athelete. Ahh, no. If this were true, it'd be hard to explain why steroids are most pervasive in the sport of cycling.

The "steroids" that are overwhelming commonly refered to as "steroids" absolutely do build fast twitch muscles and add bulk easily. Steroids are more pervasive in the sport of BODYBUILDING more so than any other sport. Do Barry Bonds, McGwire and Sosa look small to you. What about Ben Johnson? Does Marion Jones look manly strong compared to other women sprinters? What about the east german women of the early 90s olympics who might have had to shave every morning?

The "steroids" in cycling are completely different. The drug is called EPO, it allows for more oxygen to be in the muscles, for endurance. They do not enhance explosive strength. People were saying explosive strength is what would help golfers before. But now you are saying that having more oxygen available to the muscles will help. Haha, well first of all in golf muscles are never fatigued to the point of failure so it doesn't come into play much at all. But maybe that might help .05% on the back nine. There are a ton of other things that are way more important but I guess it's possible that someone would go out of their way to do that.

steroids that can build big bulky muscles: no good for golf. steroids that can build enhancement in long lean flexible muscular endurance very good for golf. whether it is being used is a mystery for now. people say steroids and think big muscular frames. you can take steroids and build muscle endurance. problems that may occur is the price you may pay. (on the tour initials J.G, torn tendon in elbow????) conspiracy maybe so.

I am not saying at all that Villegas did steroids but use him as an example, would you rather have a frame like Tim Herron or Villegas who is very muscular, flexible and plenty of endurance. muscles are very good for golf when they are trained the right way, you dont want the big bulky ones (slow twich) you want the long lean ones that olympic athletes strive for the fast twich fibers than can create more clubhead speed.

slow twich: arnold swartchnegga
fast twich: lance armstrong

I like how everyone is now shifting their argument from explosive strength benefits to endurance.

Lance Armstrong did not take steroids for fast twitch muscle growth. He took steroids (allegedly whatever) so he could have more oxygen in his blood and not get fatigued.

There is a lot wrong with your last paragraph there. First of all, big bulky muscles are not necessarily slow twitch. Actually fast twitch muscles are bigger that slow twitch I'm pretty sure. The common anabolic steroids increase the ability to build fast twitch muscles big time. "Long lean ones olympic athletes strive for are fast twitch fibers"? Totally wrong. 100 meter sprinters, aka the most fast twitch guys in the world, test postive for anabolic steroids all the time. And they tend to have pretty bulky muscles, they certainly don't look like marathon runners or Lance Armstrong. Muscle length is not affected at all by steroids by the way, whether a muscle is long and lean only has to do with geneticly how long the muscles you were born with are, how flexible you are, and how low your body fat is.
 
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Chris Sturgess

New member
Strength doesn't matter in golf??

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I have a "little bit more than a little" golf technique knowledge. I can hit almost any shot. But put me in US Open rough, and it is life and death to wedge it back in play.


US Open rough is a death wedge for Tiger too in almost all cases. But any disadvantage you would have to a top pro out of deep rough has very little to due with strength. It's mainly due to you being shorter and less flexible than them which decreases your leverage. If somebody is weak then yes that is a disadvantage, but if somebody is of regular strength or maybe slightly above average that is enough, the benefits exponentially flatten after that. Tiger is not even very strong. Compared to an nfl linebacker he is a weakling. If he became as strong as an nfl linebacker would he be much different out of US Open rough? No.
 

Chris Sturgess

New member
Who said anything about steriods? There are countless designer drugs other than steriods.You all are thinking of just the ones that pack on tons of muscle. I was more reacting to the Marion Jones story....and yes, i can break 90, and 80, and 70.....dude.

Haha. The Marion Jones story is all about the drugs that pack on a ton of muscle. She used "the clear", which ups testosterone, which is the exact same drug Barry Bonds used, and also that her husband CJ Hunter a 275 lbs shot putter who tested positive in the olympic trials used. Have you seen Marion Jones, she has a lot of muscle for a girl, she also has very low body fat so it's lean. She was not taking blood oxygen drugs like Lance Armstrong, her race is too short for that. All the sprinters take close to the same stuff bodybuilders or football players use. Bill Romanowski used the same stuff as Marion Jones. It's a standard BALCO drug.
 
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