BBFTX's Swing

[lagster]

There are some simple tests for flexability and body type in there to help determine which way to go. The guys at P.G.A. National (Mike Adams etc.) used to use this system. Most TGMers I have talked to don't care much for the system. I think some of the tests they use , however, may have some value for a teacher.

 

[Vaako]

Hi BBFTX,

The reason I asked for a download was, that embedded QuickTime is a real pain to scroll back and forth. I guess the additional IE layer just boggs down my PC.


On your swing...I have to admit I was baffled by it. Trying to stuff it into Single Axis mold just didn't work. This is nothing like the Kuykendal's Single Axis Golf stuff of yore (as I know it). If you got the goods from SA forum(s), then they have been turning the boat seriously towards TGM/mainstream stuff.

I'd say...and if I'm wrong, feel free to bite my head off...you favor the flat swing plane because you have a tendency to hit the ball more forward than down. With a steeper plane you have (I'm just guessing here, ok?) hit it fat somewhere in time and by moving to flatter plane that problem has been cured.

This hitting it forward is probably the reason why your upper body comes down to release and then upward to impact in the vid. This allows you to disrupt the normal forward-out-down clubhead orbit to Less down and more forward.

If you want a bit more umpf to you swing I think you have to hit down more. Getting there may be just simply a case of uppgrading you mental image of what/how impact is supposed to happen.

You might want to have a look at Brian's May the FORCES be with you! Pics in there...IMHO...give you a very strong image about how much down you want in your swing.

Also...YODA's iron swing vid might be a good place to go...should give you some ideas what to aim for if you decide to straighten your frame some.

Now the disclaimers: I'm guessing - I'm allways wrong, boss said so when he fired me – I'm retarded etc. You know the drill


Its 2:55 AM here, I'm starting to bable – sorry.


Vaako
Sertified H.A.C.K.

 

[bbftx]

Vaako,
Thanks for taking the time to look at the clip and comment. I'm a Mac guy, and Quick Time works so well on Macs, that I sometimes forget QT may not be seamless on some Wintel setups, so thanks for persisting.

You've suggested a couple of good pics/video for me to check out and I will.

You must have looked frame by frame because you picked up on something that the casual observer might not --- the upward movement of my body and slight straightening of the legs, starting about 2 frames before impact. This is a toned down version of what I used to do, and still find myself doing once in a blue moon --- going up on my toes!
[CMAT started a thread called "My Swing Feel" a couple of weeks ago describing a similar action. I found that to be an interesting thread. ]

I am trying to progress toward hitting down on the ball. Years ago, I used to try to "scoop" the ball off the ground, which I think a lot of amateurs do. I've gotten rid of a lot of this tendency, but still have not mastered the "down" thought and action associated with it.

As I said before, the SA community would agree that I'm not true SA, and the conventional golf folks probably wouldn't claim me either.. I've got my own swing, that's for sure.
BBFTX

 

[pixie]

quote:Originally posted by lagster

The LAWs model has attempted to recommend certain swing styles based upon one's flexability and body type. They say that most people are hybrids, not totally one type of swing. For example, one might be an arc/leverage hybrid.

The idea seems to be pretty good, however, there are some fairly obvious exceptions... Jack Nicklaus would probably be a Width player by their criteria, but he has done quite well as an Arc player(TGM-Swinger, upright plane angle, Float Load).

A good A.I. of T.G.M. could do something similar... i.e., recommend certain swing components(Hitting/Swinging etc.) depending upon one's physical and/or psychological characteristics.

I believe a GSEM(D?) has written an article on this stuff. I think it was written a year or two ago by Tom Stickney. Was it very different from the "Laws" book?

 

[pixie]

Tom F. Stickney II, G.S.E.D.

If you have naturally wide shoulders then your swing plane will tend to be more rounded and if you have smaller shoulders then your club will tend to move more vertically during the swing. If you don’t make provisions for your bodies influence on your swing’s shape then you will become a one-track type of ball striker; you must change factors like your stance width, the loading of the clubshaft by cocking the wrists earlier or later, and/or changing your workout habits.


· Ectomorphic- Davis Love III, Charles Howell, Jesper, and David Gossett
1. These are the players built with narrow shoulders and narrow hips- the slender or “lean” type of built player
2. This body type tends to force the swing to be slightly more vertical than the other body types

· Mesomorphic- Greg Norman, Tiger Woods (now), Nick Faldo, Shaun Micheel
1. These are the players built with wide shoulders and a muscular body build
2. This body type tends to force the swing to become more rounded
3. This plane tendency will be exacerbated if you work out with weights

· Endomorphic- Tim Herron, Tom Kite, and Doug Barron
1. These are the players built with narrow shoulders and wider hips
2. This is the most common body type for golfers
3. This body type tends to force the swing to be less vertical than the Ectomorphic build, but not as rounded as the Mesomorphic build

Now that we have identified the three body types how can you make sure you are adapting for what your body shape tries to force your swing to do?

· Ectomorphic
1. This player must widen his stance slightly wider than arm-pit width to allow more lower body stability so that the body can rotate the clubshaft more “around” to compensate for this body type’s tendency to work the club up and down too vertically
2. The wrist hinge of this type of player must be delayed, widening the arc, to allow the club to move “deeper” behind the player into a slightly “flatter” position that what the body tends to do naturally
3. Use the feeling of the club setting around “chest-high” to make sure the club moves deeper behind you into the start of the backswing; the mid to late wrist set will make sure the club moves upward enough to be in a position at the top that is not too flat or too vertical for all your clubs

· Mesomorphic
1. This player must narrow his stance to arm-pit width to aid the club in moving upwards easier- with a wider stance the club would tend to round itself into the backswing
2. The wrist hinge of this type of player must happen very quickly into the backswing or the club will become laid off and get stuck behind the player too early
3. Use the “Split-Hand” Drill on the grip of the club to feel the club setting earlier (around belt-high) and moving more vertically to compensate for the natural “around” swing that this body type will force you into

· Endomorphic
1. This player must widen his stance to arm-pit width to allow more stability as the body rotates the clubshaft more “around” the body to compensate for this body type’s tendency to work the club up and down too vertically
2. The wrist hinge of this type of player must be delayed, widening the arc, and allowing the club to move “deeper” behind the player moving into a much flatter position that what the body tends to do naturally
3. Use a feeling of the club “lagging” behind the wrists in route to the top to allow the hinging of the club not to happen too early (not before chest high,) as well as, making sure to focus to allow the pivot motion of the body to move the arms, hands, and clubshaft into the more correct backswing position

 

[ej20]

quote:Originally posted by pixie

Tom F. Stickney II, G.S.E.D.

If you have naturally wide shoulders then your swing plane will tend to be more rounded and if you have smaller shoulders then your club will tend to move more vertically during the swing. If you don’t make provisions for your bodies influence on your swing’s shape then you will become a one-track type of ball striker; you must change factors like your stance width, the loading of the clubshaft by cocking the wrists earlier or later, and/or changing your workout habits.


· Ectomorphic- Davis Love III, Charles Howell, Jesper, and David Gossett
1. These are the players built with narrow shoulders and narrow hips- the slender or “lean” type of built player
2. This body type tends to force the swing to be slightly more vertical than the other body types

· Mesomorphic- Greg Norman, Tiger Woods (now), Nick Faldo, Shaun Micheel
1. These are the players built with wide shoulders and a muscular body build
2. This body type tends to force the swing to become more rounded
3. This plane tendency will be exacerbated if you work out with weights

· Endomorphic- Tim Herron, Tom Kite, and Doug Barron
1. These are the players built with narrow shoulders and wider hips
2. This is the most common body type for golfers
3. This body type tends to force the swing to be less vertical than the Ectomorphic build, but not as rounded as the Mesomorphic build

Now that we have identified the three body types how can you make sure you are adapting for what your body shape tries to force your swing to do?

· Ectomorphic
1. This player must widen his stance slightly wider than arm-pit width to allow more lower body stability so that the body can rotate the clubshaft more “around” to compensate for this body type’s tendency to work the club up and down too vertically
2. The wrist hinge of this type of player must be delayed, widening the arc, to allow the club to move “deeper” behind the player into a slightly “flatter” position that what the body tends to do naturally
3. Use the feeling of the club setting around “chest-high” to make sure the club moves deeper behind you into the start of the backswing; the mid to late wrist set will make sure the club moves upward enough to be in a position at the top that is not too flat or too vertical for all your clubs

· Mesomorphic
1. This player must narrow his stance to arm-pit width to aid the club in moving upwards easier- with a wider stance the club would tend to round itself into the backswing
2. The wrist hinge of this type of player must happen very quickly into the backswing or the club will become laid off and get stuck behind the player too early
3. Use the “Split-Hand” Drill on the grip of the club to feel the club setting earlier (around belt-high) and moving more vertically to compensate for the natural “around” swing that this body type will force you into

· Endomorphic
1. This player must widen his stance to arm-pit width to allow more stability as the body rotates the clubshaft more “around” the body to compensate for this body type’s tendency to work the club up and down too vertically
2. The wrist hinge of this type of player must be delayed, widening the arc, and allowing the club to move “deeper” behind the player moving into a much flatter position that what the body tends to do naturally
3. Use a feeling of the club “lagging” behind the wrists in route to the top to allow the hinging of the club not to happen too early (not before chest high,) as well as, making sure to focus to allow the pivot motion of the body to move the arms, hands, and clubshaft into the more correct backswing position

Good and interesting post Pixie.

I am the ectomorphic type and that decription is excactly what i am trying to do with my swing.I tend to set up steep like Charles Howell which is the only setup that works for me.I have tried them all.I need to constantly work on flattening my swing out.I have also noticed that a late wrist set works better for me.I wish i had this info years ago to save all that wasted experimentation.

 

[bbftx]

pixie
Thanks for posting the Stickney material. Is there a more complete article somewhere?
Can you point me to it?
Best regards,
BBFTX

 

[pixie]

Sorry,
I don't know if and where it might have been published.

I don't know Stickney's contact information, but maybe you can contact him directly through email. He's the one who sent it to me a few years ago.