Biomechanics

[golfie]

Now I understand that the whole arm should rotate, not just the forearm.

S4P,

I can, in slow motion, execute an entire and full golf swing w/o rotating the upper arm at all. I do this by starting with the elbow pointing at the left hip and basically leaving it in that orientation throughout. If you started with it facing the target and left it there in the backswing, you'd have to rotate the upper arm or else you'd be in for trouble in the follow through.

That being said, I thing mine rotates a bit post impact in a real swing.

Golfie

 

[puttmad]

...

 

[Spike]

No wonder it hurt.

 

[golfie]

No wonder it hurt.

Spike,

You had left elbow facing the target at address?

Golfie

 

[Spike]

Spike,

You had left elbow facing the target at address?

Golfie

Sorry, was talking about the static drill S4P asked me to do. It just didn't feel good when I tried to rotate my arm with the rotator cuff. The only way I could do it was with the feeling that my left shoulder was pulling back. Could have been doing it wrong.

When I HH, with my hand, it rotates my forearm, locks my upper arm into the#4 PP and assists in the completion of the shoulder turn. So, I'm thinkng that any rotation of the upper arm is reaction and not an action we should be attempting to do.

Thoughts on this?

 

[puttmad]

...

Sorry, was talking about the static drill S4P asked me to do. It just didn't feel good when I tried to rotate my arm with the rotator cuff. The only way I could do it was with the feeling that my left shoulder was pulling back. Could have been doing it wrong.

When I HH, with my hand, it rotates my forearm, locks my upper arm into the#4 PP and assists in the completion of the shoulder turn. So, I'm thinkng that any rotation of the upper arm is reaction and not an action we should be attempting to do.

Thoughts on this?

...

 

[Mike Olberding]

Unclear

Spike
If you hold you left arm off your chest and then rotate it from the shoulder socket fully clockwise and then bring it onto your chest and lock the top-arm to your pec, you can the rotate the arm from the elbow to the wrist anti clockwise so you can take your grip, without rotating the humerous bone.
What this does if you try and set up the way, is limit the anti-clockwise rotation before impact, thus allowing you to swing as hard as you like without fear of hooking...

While this post did spark some interesting insight for me- It was unclear to me in regards to which way you were considering clockwise and anti clock wise. I'm assuming you were using it from the player's perspective. So that if you held out your left arm in front of you parallel to the ground and perpendicular to the shoulder line and then internally rotated the humerus in combination with pronating the forearm- that both of those movements would be clockwise- did I get that part of it correct i.e. the direction for your reference to clockwise?

 

[puttmad]

While this post did spark some interesting insight for me- It was unclear to me in regards to which way you were considering clockwise and anti clock wise. I'm assuming you were using it from the player's perspective. So that if you held out your left arm in front of you parallel to the ground and perpendicular to the shoulder line and then internally rotated the humerus in combination with pronating the forearm- that both of those movements would be clockwise- did I get that part of it correct i.e. the direction for your reference to clockwise?

...

 

[Spike]

Spike
If you hold you left arm off your chest and then rotate it from the shoulder socket fully clockwise and then bring it onto your chest and lock the top-arm to your pec, you can the rotate the arm from the elbow to the wrist anti clockwise so you can take your grip, without rotating the humerous bone.
What this does if you try and set up the way, is limit the anti-clockwise rotation before impact, thus allowing you to swing as hard as you like without fear of hooking...

A-ok, makes sense.....

For me, I like the alignments of the elbows to point at my hips. This seems geometrically correct to me. Also, I'm still of a mind that the hand/wrist is a source of motion that can dictate forearm rotation. This coupled with the lag pressure seems to create a lot of the good things in a good golf swing.

These thoughts come from my experience with those Aikido Masters. You know the guys that if you shake their hand can through you across the room just by moving your wrist. I was fortunate enough to study with some Judo guys at one time who could, literally, control my entire body just by manipulating my hands and wrists.

Biomechanically, I see hand and wrist movement someting to be mastered more so than the forearm rotation. I'm now wondering if this is why Homer wanted us to monitor our hands?

 

[Mike Olberding]

Different viewpoint

Spike
If you hold you left arm off your chest and then rotate it from the shoulder socket fully clockwise and then bring it onto your chest and lock the top-arm to your pec, you can the rotate the arm from the elbow to the wrist anti clockwise so you can take your grip, without rotating the humerous bone.
What this does if you try and set up the way, is limit the anti-clockwise rotation before impact, thus allowing you to swing as hard as you like without fear of hooking...

Initially, I would see it to be the exact opposite- that is you would have more of a chance of hooking it with your recommendation of internally rotating the humerus bone. Because the only place now it can go or would want to move is to externally rotate- potentially creating a closed clubface. Alternatively, if you did the opposite of what you recommended i.e. setting up and externally rotating the humerus bone before gripping, then the tendency on the downswing may be to internally rotate and leave the clubface open or "no fear of hooking".

 

[puttmad]

....

Initially, I would see it to be the exact opposite- that is you would have more of a chance of hooking it with your recommendation of internally rotating the humerus bone. Because the only place now it can go or would want to move is to externally rotate- potentially creating a closed clubface. Alternatively, if you did the opposite of what you recommended i.e. setting up and externally rotating the humerus bone before gripping, then the tendency on the downswing may be to internally rotate and leave the clubface open or "no fear of hooking".

Only one way to find out Mike......

 

[puttmad]

...

Biomechanically, I see hand and wrist movement someting to be mastered more so than the forearm rotation. I'm now wondering if this is why Homer wanted us to monitor our hands?

Sounds right Spike...if you have to say, "reach" out for something to pick it up, the whole body reacts to the movement of your hands to keep you in balance, i.e. the weight shifts, your foot may move under you etc... and the body is very good at getting it just right...

 

[puttmad]

....

Initially, I would see it to be the exact opposite- that is you would have more of a chance of hooking it with your recommendation of internally rotating the humerus bone. Because the only place now it can go or would want to move is to externally rotate- potentially creating a closed clubface. Alternatively, if you did the opposite of what you recommended i.e. setting up and externally rotating the humerus bone before gripping, then the tendency on the downswing may be to internally rotate and leave the clubface open or "no fear of hooking".

...

 

[Spike]

Initially, I would see it to be the exact opposite- that is you would have more of a chance of hooking it with your recommendation of internally rotating the humerus bone. Because the only place now it can go or would want to move is to externally rotate- potentially creating a closed clubface. Alternatively, if you did the opposite of what you recommended i.e. setting up and externally rotating the humerus bone before gripping, then the tendency on the downswing may be to internally rotate and leave the clubface open or "no fear of hooking".

I hear ya, Mike. Had some similar thoughts when I first started dealing with horizontal hinging, but found out that done correctly it really only delofts the clubface through impact rather than closing it.

Weird or what?

 

[Mike Olberding]

What?

I hear ya, Mike. Had some similar thoughts when I first started dealing with horizontal hinging, but found out that done correctly it really only delofts the clubface through impact rather than closing it.

Weird or what?

I would say "What?" or put differently "more clarification needed on your post for me to understand exactly what you were saying Thanks

 

[Spike]

I would say "What?" or put differently "more clarification needed on your post for me to understand exactly what you were saying Thanks

Ok, I'll give it a shot,

HH, for me, must be programmed in before I even take the club back. What I find is, if done this way, the HH is actually beginning to happen before impact (sort of). The feeling through impact to follow through is kinda like when you see a bullfighter whipping the cape around his body. When I do this there is absolutely no fear of hooking. Make any sense?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Ok, I'll give it a shot,

HH, for me, must be programmed in before I even take the club back. What I find is, if done this way, the HH is actually beginning to happen before impact (sort of). The feeling through impact to follow through is kinda like when you see a bullfighter whipping the cape around his body. When I do this there is absolutely no fear of hooking. Make any sense?

Sort of, but if done correctly HH does not deloft the clubface it simply creates the normal amount of loft or very slightly delofts.

The problem become when people do HH or even semi-flip at it, they tend to hit the BACK of the ball and the shots go left. Then instead of hitting the ball with a semi-open face and hitting the inside aft quadrant then they start swinging too far right and that is when the hooks start to come.

 

[Spike]

Sort of, but if done correctly HH does not deloft the clubface it simply creates the normal amount of loft or very slightly delofts.

The problem become when people do HH or even semi-flip at it, they tend to hit the BACK of the ball and the shots go left. Then instead of hitting the ball with a semi-open face and hitting the inside aft quadrant then they start swinging too far right and that is when the hooks start to come.

Thanks for that Jim!