BrendanC
New
Jim, Lifter (and Kevin) are talking about the guy in the video, not Johnny Miller.
There are no pseudo-facts in the video, just the analyst's view that Tiger is best when his head is more steady.
Brandel and Faldo
- Thread starter Lifter
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Jim, Lifter (and Kevin) are talking about the guy in the video, not Johnny Miller.
There are no pseudo-facts in the video, just the analyst's view that Tiger is best when his head is more steady.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The whole problem is folks thinking TV is all about "getting it right."
No.
No.
mgranato
New
All you have to do is watch the "world wide leader" to know that sure as hell isn't the goal... or a priority sometimes.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
That's a fact, Jack!....er....Leo.
[Sigh] Kevin, Kratzert said "You can see that Tiger's head does not move up and down as much as we've seen in the past."
That is not an opinion. It is a statement of fact. Can you see the difference between the two?
Jim wrote:
Bravo, Jim, for being objective.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
More like....bravo, Jim, for agreeing with you.
Show me the facts that show Tigers head movement isn't he way Kratzert says. I don't care either way what he says, just show me facts that say otherwise.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Talking about Kratzert, not Miller
gmbtempe
New
Neither is golf instruction IMO. One can certainly do very well without "getting it right".
I put this video into my V1 software:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a1eEJqJ5USg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The camera is absolutely still, so I could draw lines. Tiger's head drops an enormous amount. Just as much as it always has and always will. Kratzert also claims that "there's no shift to the right" but Tiger's head moves an enormous amount behind the ball.
Kratzert is just making everything up. People love to talk about Tiger's head drop so he cites that. He's heard that Foley came from stack and tilt, so he assumes Tiger is "on top of the ball." He doesn't actually look at the video to confirm whether his assumptions are right.
Not only is this analysis lazy, but think about the influence it could have on the average golfer. Should the typical golfer avoid shifting his weight back and keep it "on top of the ball"? N-O!
More importantly, it is enormously beneficial for most players to turn their ass behind the tush line and keep it back there. Typically results in a substantial head drop. And it ain't gonna happen if the average golfer tries something stupid like "keep your head level."
dschultz6072
New
The average golfer shouldn't be trying to learn how to play golf from watching a bunch of swing analyses and reading articles. Those should be viewed like "Hmm...that's interesting. Good for him/her/them." It's no secret the real players got as good as they got by practicing as much as they could, hitting a million balls. Get a little help along the way, but in the end, the progress depends on YOU. Tinker all you want, but finding stuff that works and KEEPS working is like finding 20 dollar bills on the street. Doesn't happen too often.
Snead talking at 0:34
Snead talking at 0:34
Just to be clear, aggressively turning through the tush line and then avoiding "early extension" (hip thrust) is clearly part of the Manzella playbook. See below:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TbGH4nzMB3s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TbGH4nzMB3s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I first learned about turning through the tush line and "early extension" over the Internet and it's the single most valuable element I've ever added to my swing. I also learned to aggressively tilt my right shoulder down over the Internet. I've had a lot of success with that in the past and it's helping me a lot right now.
dschultz6072
New
Don't misconstrue my comments to mean everything on the internet is a bunch of baloney. That's not what I mean at all. What I am trying to say is improvements in the game ultimately come from working on stuff that personally helps you. You ever notice the instruction articles/tips/whatever in the golf magazines sometimes have tips in direct opposition to the one a few pages before it? Ex. Let the clubhead pass your hands for great short game play! 3 pages later... Keep your hands ahead throughout the shot for great short game play! Is it to piss readers off and screw them over? Of course not. Every teacher is trying to teach "golf". Not everyone needs the same medicine. You might think some teachers are quacks, but sometimes those quacks' ideas really impact certain people's games for the better.
Erik_K
New
It's hard to disagree with the above statements. I think most golf teachers present their findings based on what has "worked on average." Often when you are reading about a tip or some drill the teacher usually leads off with, "what I see quite often in my schools is..." and then the discussion about how to fix the problem starts.
Where we go wrong, way wrong, is automatically assuming that every golf tip/concept/theory/position applies to our swings in a very direct manner. The proliferation of "self-help" videos on the internet has no doubt helped a lot of people, but it can also lead the student to ruinous results. This business can easily degenerate down to a vicious cycle where progress is always slow and hard to come by.
Even though I've been following Brian for the better part of decade, I have to admit that I know far, far less about the swing then I ever thought possible. With respect to teaching, it's likely even worse for me. I can tell people about things I struggle with and what I try to do to fix them, but that's about it.
Erik
Brian Manzella
Administrator
That's fine.
But MY golf instruction is about getting it right. And the golf instruction of all the guys I associate with.
A lot.
The idea of continuously turning through the ball with the lower body, no peak, has ruined a LOT of golfers.
That's great—for you.
The right shoulder down is a swing wrecker for many, and the tush line idea isn't for everyone as well.
Truer words were never spoken.
Lindsey Newman
New
I know one thing for sure. Firing the hips does not guarantee a firing of the torso. Which would you (anyone) rather have?
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