Brian, is the right elbow position in any way important in the swing?

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huestisc

huestisc

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Brian, I'd like to know your thoughts about the position of the right elbow on the downswing. I'm not worried about "supporting the primary lever attachment", or right forearm on plane at impact, or tracing anything, or maintaining pressure points with my upper arms...but I've got something in my swing that I don't like, and I don't know if it's important to worry about or not...I don't know if it's cause or effect or there for a reason.

My elbow drifts away from my ribcage on the backswing...fine. At the top I am at or above the turned shoulder plane...fine. I am a bit across the line...I don't particularly like that, but that's because my tendency is of an underplane hooker...but trying to rotate the left forearm to get more sqare at the top has never felt very comfortable.

The part I REALLY don't like is that on the downswing my right elbow stays away from my ribcage...instead of pointing straight down, like most HOF swings, it points straight behind me. It's not in a pulling position, it's in an ugly, awkward bunched up position. The reason I don't like it, is that I haven't seen any HOF or Tour quality swings that have this, and I think it may be limiting me from getting more clubhead speed.

mail


I'm not trying to achieve some crazy pitch elbow, maximum delay position, just trying to get more orthodox. When I try to get the elbow pointing down on the downswing, or elbows more together, or anything similar to "fix" this, it causes me to open the clubface a LOT (normally not a problem of mine), causes some thinnish ugly shots, and even in extreme cases can lead to a Shank....so that keeps me from fooling around too much with this idea.

So, my question is: Does it matter that my elbow is stuck back behind me? Should I try to fix it? Or is it there to compensate for something else? In the past when you have looked at my swing, and the one time I saw you in person, you didn't seem particularly bothered by it, so maybe I should forget about it and worry about other things?

Thanks,

Clay
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

New
Furyk elbow

Check out this elbow:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DFDRebJy8ac&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DFDRebJy8ac&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

He's doin just fine.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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Sounds a bit like you have 'push' elbow. That's what I get from the description.

I have a hard time wanting to change something just because you haven't found any Hall of Fame golfers that do it. I think that would've prevented guys like Moe, Trevino, Furyk, Azinger, etc from achieving their greatness.





3JACK
 
Matt Bryda

Matt Bryda

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I would try a little carry in the downswing move to get the arms/club more in front for the delivery to release.

Matt
 
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Ringer

New
Furyk is a freak of nature, he really is. I have watched his swing so many times and it's just amazing how much coordination he must have to make that work.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
It is where it is.

huestisc said:
Does it matter that my elbow is stuck back behind me?
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Technically, no.

huestisc said:
Should I try to fix it?
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Not if you feel like you have enough clubhead speed and your contact is solid.

huestisc said:
Or is it there to compensate for something else?
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It ios "there" because that's how you move a stick fast in a certain direction with YOUR physiology.

huestisc said:
In the past when you have looked at my swing, and the one time I saw you in person, you didn't seem particularly bothered by it, so maybe I should forget about it and worry about other things?
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Yepers. ;)

Thanks,

Clay
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
Here ya' go!

Kevin Shields said:
Man, would I love to see video of this.
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And I would love to hear your opinion, Kevin! (Sorry, not the best video I have ever shot, but this is the most recent)

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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zo1LrVyKjZ4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zo1LrVyKjZ4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
Thanks, boss.

Brian Manzella said:
Not if you feel like you have enough clubhead speed and your contact is solid.

It is "there" because that's how you move a stick fast in a certain direction with YOUR physiology.
Click to expand...

That's kinda what I thought...of course I am always looking for more clubhead speed, more solid contact, and more clubface control, so that's why I am always searching for answers! It's the nature of golf at any level to always try to improve....I just want to make sure I'm looking in the right areas.

Thanks for your comments.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Brian, do you feel he drifts a little (reversed hips) and pulls the hands too much from the top to compensate or catch up. That move will always leave the elbow a little high. A lesser player might throw it away also.

But really, like he said, prob nothing to worry about because its not nearly what i thought i was going to see.
 
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twitch127

New
Kevin,

Would you say that the action is just a random release with not a great deal of trigger delay due to the fast hands he has. The elbow is not pitch elbow by any means but it's not punch elbow either.

I think he does as a little case of reverse hips and that is why is right hand seperates from his right shoulder quickly.

Your thoughts on above?
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Exactly, I thought it would be much worse because we've all seen that before. I'm not crazy about the hips but im sure they're working on it!

To your point, when i slowed my hands in the transition i got a lot deeper in the downswing.
 
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twitch127

New
Kevin,

When looking at the hips component do you look to see if the right hip joint is in line with the knee joint and ankle joint. ie. all 3 points are in a straight line and thus "posted" and structually sound. Or do you look for something else?
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Honestly, its just a feel thing. I dont have a specific reference point. In this case, i thought his hands were so dominant that they kinda pulled at his hips late in the backswing to make them reverse. He then had to hurry his hands back down so he could catch up to the drift.

Top players who have that kind of hip action like Olazbal or Hogan still seem so grounded and coiled that it isnt a huge problem to sequence the downswing. In other words, i wouldnt change reversed hips unless i was sure it was a problem.

What do you see in this case?
 
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twitch127

New
I think the hand path is narrow and huestisc does really know where his hands are in the backswing. I think the bad hand path is causing his hips to reverse up a little and that is why they seperate quite early in the downswing. If he knew where his hands are and what a good hand path is then his pivot would be more dynamic and a touch more right leanning. I was talking to a fellow AI for two hours the other night about "hand controlled pivot" and I think this is a case in point. You can really only control your pivot when you know where your hands have to get to, thus you have educated them to locate a good top of backswing position. I didn't really believe in hand controlled pivot beacuse I was given the old tug on your right thumb to the top extensor action "talk". HCP is more about where you are trying to get your hands in space not just tugging on your right thumb. Sure I could tug on my right thumb and not move my body at all :eek: but if I was trying to get my hands in a little imaginary yellow circle then my body would have to turn to reach it.
 
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