Brian Manzella for Golf Magazine, Golf.com & FRONT9 - Hit it like The Hawk
- Thread starter Matt 4-L
- Start date
- Status
gmbtempe
New
Brian,
I really don't think we are that far apart, maybe I am just goofy and not understanding.
Now you had a neutral grip and down arched to close the face and applied some torque, I would rather use a strong grip and not have to apply that same torque maneuver but the bottom like is the face squares earlier than maybe is traditionally taught.
From there you pivot through hold the face square, obviously its still closing but not as much as if you did not do what you are advocating in this video.
You suppinate it slightly, or I guess if you have a lot of arch you just pivot through.
I think a path slightly outside-in, or closed to zero just helps with the squaring of the face in the manner described (meaning not to inside out).
I really don't think we are that far apart, maybe I am just goofy and not understanding.
Now you had a neutral grip and down arched to close the face and applied some torque, I would rather use a strong grip and not have to apply that same torque maneuver but the bottom like is the face squares earlier than maybe is traditionally taught.
From there you pivot through hold the face square, obviously its still closing but not as much as if you did not do what you are advocating in this video.
You suppinate it slightly, or I guess if you have a lot of arch you just pivot through.
I think a path slightly outside-in, or closed to zero just helps with the squaring of the face in the manner described (meaning not to inside out).
Last edited:
gmbtempe
New
I like Brians position for more consistency (and I guess you could say David Toms' as Brian points out).
This is a little more closed I am sure as BM is demonstration but I don't think BM's point is lost that there are different ways to square the face from the delivery position to the impact position.
This is a little more closed I am sure as BM is demonstration but I don't think BM's point is lost that there are different ways to square the face from the delivery position to the impact position.
Last edited:
Brian Manzella
Administrator
A couple of quick points.....
Gamma Torque as Dr. Nesbit calls it, or TwistAway as I dubbed it, has been a part of Manzella-land for nearly 25 years.
It kept me in new cars my whole life, as 80%+ of all golfers are slicers and big, if you know what you are doing, you can fix some slicers with it.
I did an article in a small magazine in New Orleans long ago on the subject, but waiting until late 2003 or early 2004 to shoot the first "Never Slice Again" video.
I did a much better version in January of 2007, we all know as NSA2.
Here is an except:
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/F3uBKowIR8o?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So, here you have confusion from Greg from Tempe about "wait a minute, that looks like the position you were arguing against" or something like that.
No, never said you couldn't play from there. Now, "there" depends a lot on grip strength, and when shooting the video for Golf Magazine I gripped it quick a bunch of times while talking.
But those varieties at least show some variety in how it can be done.
All I have been arguing for the longest time is that DOWN-TWISTING early is NOT for everyone. And doing it early certainly doesn't guarantee that the amount of GAMMA TWIST (the actual twist, not just the torque, that we have been calling Rate of Closure but are not calling it that anymore, since the scientist use XYZ axis and this "Z" axis twist has already been nicknamed well by me, and named well by Nesbit) at impact will be much different that if the face was a hair more open at last parallel.
Teaching it to everyone in the same place is, well, against everything I stand for.
Some really good players never here me mention it, because they have it already.
DT has always done it, and we use to work on it too much, to tell you the truth. You learn in this business that one move doesn't fit all.
Anyhoo, Hope you enjoy the Hawk Video.
BManz
Gamma Torque as Dr. Nesbit calls it, or TwistAway as I dubbed it, has been a part of Manzella-land for nearly 25 years.
It kept me in new cars my whole life, as 80%+ of all golfers are slicers and big, if you know what you are doing, you can fix some slicers with it.
I did an article in a small magazine in New Orleans long ago on the subject, but waiting until late 2003 or early 2004 to shoot the first "Never Slice Again" video.
I did a much better version in January of 2007, we all know as NSA2.
Here is an except:
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/F3uBKowIR8o?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So, here you have confusion from Greg from Tempe about "wait a minute, that looks like the position you were arguing against" or something like that.
No, never said you couldn't play from there. Now, "there" depends a lot on grip strength, and when shooting the video for Golf Magazine I gripped it quick a bunch of times while talking.
But those varieties at least show some variety in how it can be done.
All I have been arguing for the longest time is that DOWN-TWISTING early is NOT for everyone. And doing it early certainly doesn't guarantee that the amount of GAMMA TWIST (the actual twist, not just the torque, that we have been calling Rate of Closure but are not calling it that anymore, since the scientist use XYZ axis and this "Z" axis twist has already been nicknamed well by me, and named well by Nesbit) at impact will be much different that if the face was a hair more open at last parallel.
Teaching it to everyone in the same place is, well, against everything I stand for.
Some really good players never here me mention it, because they have it already.
DT has always done it, and we use to work on it too much, to tell you the truth. You learn in this business that one move doesn't fit all.
Anyhoo, Hope you enjoy the Hawk Video.
BManz
gmbtempe
New
Well the pattern I like is very similar to what you demonstrated with pictures and described with words, if that's confusion I am fine with it. I will now have a video that sums up some of the things I like in the swing when people here ask me "what do you like in a swing". You should have mentioned hand path though a bit and it would have been more complete. Maybe next week.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
There is always stuff on the "cutting room" floor....
I will post up the part I had to (sadly) leave out.
Who gets to pick the subject (golfer) for these weekly shoots?
I did not see the Hawk coming for this week.
The big, big, BIG bosses at the Magazine.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Here is the extra footage:
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rKvjU9iI6Do?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rKvjU9iI6Do?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Brian Manzella
Administrator
This is OBVIOUS to folks who have actually taken regular golf lessons from me.....
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7Jzd5AXsLB0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7Jzd5AXsLB0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Brian-can you demonstrate the difference between "lining it up late" vs "handle dragging"? I think I read on some other thread that you like some forward shaft lean but not too much. How much is enough but not too much?
Thank you
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Anyone who thinks Brian is copying anyone's material about turning the face down early, have they seen Building Blocks??? The video is forever old and that info has been around a long time. Do you think this guys a one trick pony? This has gotten to the ridiculous. So many ways to do it.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
A couple of really good questions....
I guess I need to demonstrate this in a video, but it is dark, and since I took the day off to take my puppy to the Doctor in Baton Rouge, I ain't dressed for it anyway.
#1. All of my videos are VERY relevant.
Let's start backward....
Too much forward lean is almost impossible if you do the following:
A. Don't let the center of your arms cross the center of you body pre-impact.
B. No force across the shaft near and at impact.
C. Don't let your upper body and head move forward past the ball.
Lining it up late vs. Handle Dragging.....
It is very hard to show this without 3D numbers and really make the point, but I'll try....
A Handle Dragger is someone TRYING to put all the force across the shaft near, at, and past impact.
A late liner-upper is in FULL TOSS mode, sometimes starting from arched, but because their body is open, the time AND PLACE for the golfer to go from left arm across the shaft - to - the right arm swinging across the shaft happens later. And the force is toward the golfer, not the target.
I have more....
I guess I need to demonstrate this in a video, but it is dark, and since I took the day off to take my puppy to the Doctor in Baton Rouge, I ain't dressed for it anyway.
#1. All of my videos are VERY relevant.
Let's start backward....
Too much forward lean is almost impossible if you do the following:
A. Don't let the center of your arms cross the center of you body pre-impact.
B. No force across the shaft near and at impact.
C. Don't let your upper body and head move forward past the ball.
Lining it up late vs. Handle Dragging.....
It is very hard to show this without 3D numbers and really make the point, but I'll try....
A Handle Dragger is someone TRYING to put all the force across the shaft near, at, and past impact.
A late liner-upper is in FULL TOSS mode, sometimes starting from arched, but because their body is open, the time AND PLACE for the golfer to go from left arm across the shaft - to - the right arm swinging across the shaft happens later. And the force is toward the golfer, not the target.
I have more....
mgranato
New
Here, here...
The new buzz word for getting your arse handed to you is to cry "strawman". Funny considering the original strawman is that "New Ideas About the Release" is teaching a flip.
So, just to update everyone on the new terms floating around these days...
Strawman - used when your argument/thesis/assertions get blown up publicly.
Case Study - a new word for "lesson" when an off center strike is documented.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The answer to all of this silliness is in the Hawk video.
I'll give everyone a hint.....what's the difference between twist about the Z axis (aka, TwistAway, Down Twist, Enso-pro's rotational velocity about the long axis of the shaft, RoC, etc) and clubface position from last parallel to 45° past the ball?
I'll give everyone a hint.....what's the difference between twist about the Z axis (aka, TwistAway, Down Twist, Enso-pro's rotational velocity about the long axis of the shaft, RoC, etc) and clubface position from last parallel to 45° past the ball?
Would it have anything to do with this:
Here ya go, Leo!
ALPHA is quickly going into negative ("the toss" FLAT to BENT middle three pics).
BETA is steadily going into negative (hand path is going in, hips and shoulders opening).
GAMMA is ramping up (the down arch into impact).
It's is precisely what I teach.
If you are not a slicer, you lay the club on the line slightly toe down, down arch/twist the shaft heading into impact, arching the left wrist to take off dynamic loft, and then toss it through in the direction of spiderman left hand, tabletop-like face cutting through the plane, turning into face on the plane in the swivel.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I keep telling everyone that you be surprised at the difference between your actual rotational velocity about the Z axis—The RoC, TwistAway, whatever you'd like to call it—and what the clubface looked like on video....
But why?
But why?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
- Status