Calvin Peete Analysis (now w/ a page 18 blog post by Brian Manzella)

[OLIVER1]

I can only echo the sentiments of RogerDodger.
Brian,
Why do you think David was willing to keep going with you after the mis-steps you outlined?
Fascinated to know this
Thanks

 

[Brian Manzella]

Why do you think David was willing to keep going with you after the mis-steps you outlined?

The point is he didn't. You never know it is a mis-step until it just does't work good enough over a period of time.

You want to keep a student? Keep 'em hitting it good and scoring great.

 

[fadegolfer]

I agree with CWD about NHA, some great concepts in that video. The way Peete swung through the ball (really going left) seems somewhat similar to NHA.

 

[ms1170]

Brian, why do you think these players ( Peete,Trevino, McDowell, D. Johnson, Lehman, Bill Rogers etc.) are arching their left wrist at top of the backswing, start of downswing? Are they setting up for impact?, Recovering from a certain backswing position, like being across the line? or trying to flatten the shaft? I'm sure there are different reasons depending on the player.

 

[wulsy]

Indeed, why do they arch at the top? Is their face open or closed at the top?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I agree with CWD about NHA, some great concepts in that video. The way Peete swung through the ball (really going left) seems somewhat similar to NHA.

There is no doubt with a NHA-type "hold shot" swing, you want to be more open at impact.

You want to do this for two reasons:

1. It helps you swing left.

2. It keeps the clubface from closing.


You can overdo it, though, and it is easy to do.

You need to have the right amount of slide to be able to right side bend enough, and if you slide enough, it will slow the hips down a bit.

That's how David fixed his over spin from the '91 lesson.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian, why do you think these players ( Peete,Trevino, McDowell, D. Johnson, Lehman, Bill Rogers etc.) are arching their left wrist at top of the backswing, start of downswing? Are they setting up for impact?, Recovering from a certain backswing position, like being across the line? or trying to flatten the shaft? I'm sure there are different reasons depending on the player.

It is called torque, and this torque is called GAMMA TORQUE.

Indeed, why do they arch at the top? Is their face open or closed at the top?

You are not funny.

ALPHA - it the plane of the club

BETA - the pitch of the club

GAMMA - about the shaft

That's the way we teach it, I prefer to talk about it that way.

For the millionth time: arching the wrist ONLY down in the alpha, opens it. And trust me, if you JUST arch the wrist at the top, you might not get what you think.

 

[dschultz6072]

It is called torque, and this torque is called GAMMA TORQUE.

So, to clarify in laymans terms, what GMac and company are doing is a bit of twisting the shaft?

BTW Toms kills it again.

 

[ms1170]

I get that it's a Gamma torque at the top of the backswing. I'd just like to know why they are doing it.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Brian -

Is Dustin Johnson's face closed at the top of his backswing because his wrist is arched (more than anyone)? I was taught that such position is a closed position, however, just arching the left wrist BY ITSELF will open the face relative to the ball.

Of course, nobody ever told me what DJ's face was closed "to" at the top.

The answer to this question might clear up some confusion.

 

[brianid]

What I said about Calvin Peete—and the fact that knowing what I know now, I would NOT change his swing and just adjust him and explain it to him on TrackMan— is NOT related to what we have learned about "The Well-Time Release."

I, Brian Manzella, am a "custom-pattern" teacher. I have been for a long time now.

It all started back in the late 80's....

I was teaching a max-lag, max-pivot through the ball, max-up the left arm swing to all my talented golfers.

I had about six guys that looked absolutely GREAT on the range, GREAT on video, and HIT IT great.

And this one other student that just couldn't do it.

One day, after a couple of long sessions working on the same sort of positions that people have been trying to shove down my throat lately as "optimum," we went out to play a course that he played all the time.

He was beaten by a guy that sells insurance now. (not that there is anything wrong with that)

My student then infamously uttered these exact words after the bad round and having to cough up some green pieces of paper, and then having me try to start to tell him it wasn't that bad....

"But it looks good on video, huh."


​

So, either I had to adjust what I was teaching this guy, or lose him. I adjusted, and he quickly returned to form and got on tour.

Then, at Doral in 1991, right after he had finished 3rd a couple of weeks earlier, I put in something that I wish to this day I never did.

On a par-3 in the tournament that he finished 3rd in, there was a good 45° up-the-line video of him on TV. I watched it at Tom Bartlett's old sun room with Tom.

My Tour student's hips looked to pretty much stop through the ball (or slow a whole bunch). Tom told me that I had to fix that, "that's not what we are supposed to do." It sure wasn't what I taught.

So at Doral, I put it in, a continuos pivot through the ball.

I'm lucky he didn't fire me right then and there. He didn't. I hung around for a few more years, off and on. Eventually a few years later, his swing had gotten unrecognizable. I had started to teach several patterns, in an early version of the Manzella Matrix.

One of those patterns was Never Hook Again.

Pretty much his swing. So I taught it back to him. It helped a lot, and another teacher got it to work even better. I'd least I had did something right for a change. In the few years that he became famous without working with me at all, I really upgraded my teaching. Living in Louisville, I completely developed the Manzella Matrix, and was eventually smart enough with another future LSU golfer, to leave her INDIVIDUALIZED SWING PATTERN alone enough. She had a long sweep type release too, and another bunch of other things like a big weight shift, that had become passé. I knew she'd make it one day, and I knew I could really help the other now-famous player too now, if I ever got the chance.

In the spring of 2003 I got the chance.

The golfer had started to swing way too far inside-out. I knew how to fix it, and using the pre-TrackMan resultant path ideas that I was mocked on the internet for teaching (it was jokingly called "avoidance"), I fixed him.

He won a million dollar event the next week.

Back in the fold some of the time, I got to keep adjusting this tendency with pretty good results. The golfer played well±not great for him—but well, and my teaching really took off with the help of this website. A guy named Fredrik Tuxen invented a mobile teaching device he didn't realize was a mobile teaching device, and uncovered the D-Plane from the bowels of history, and I bought a machine that not only transformed my teaching and career, but the whole teaching industry. I'm quite proud that this change took place partially because of me, and my promotion of the device and the concepts it can help you adjust in your students.

I really started to utilize the device with the player last year, and he really started to enjoy the easy to understand lessons—checked at all times for accuracy—on my "little orange friend." The player and I worked together more than we had for years, on and off the tour, and he played well all year.

Oh yeah, he shot 63 yesterday.

So, before you run out and try a max-lag, turn through it aggressively though impact, and take some lessons without checking the work on a device like TrackMan, you might want to read this story again.

And before you try to throw under the bus the ideas about the release that MAY not produce a max-lag, super pivot through the ball swing, or throw me under the bus for not teaching it, you might want to think about the fact that if it exists, I taught it or test it at some point in time in the 29 years I have been trying to become the best teacher in the world.

Thanks for reading.

BMANZ

Thanks for replying Brian. Got you. But just to be clear, not here to put your ideas under the bus. Rather, here to really learn what you and others here got to say. I'm a helping someone get on the bus kinda guy. Good luck to you and more continued success.

 

[brianid]

Brian, for a total newbie to golf unlike Mr. Peete (so I guess the principles for an already good player such as tour players will not apply?), what would be your ideal golf swing/teachings? Any reference such as videos or posts for these in this site or somewhere else? For someone new to this site, pretty hard to scan the millions of topics in here you know..

And would the answer above be different if that newbie is a kid, say 8 years old?

 

[magicmarker]

I know I'm not Brian but If I had a kid that age I would be trying to get their spongy little melon as deep soaked into the short game as possible. You can build them a good swing now but the swing will grow and evolve and change some. Develop their touch, finesse, green reading and a great feel for the weight of the ball and they'll have it for quite some time, just my 2 cents.

 

[ekennedy]

And would the answer above be different if that newbie is a kid, say 8 years old?

Teach them to love the game, play it as much as possible and keep the lessons to bite sized nuggets. Let them figure out a bunch of it on their own and don't underestimate their ability to do just that. I want juniors to be as un-reliant on me as possible.