Michael Finney
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are you on crack?
Centrifugal force and gravity the same?
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are you on crack?
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SteveT
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In a sense, yes ... because to whirl the pocket-knife you must jerk your hand around to create the rotation.
Now, since Parametric Acceleration is being applied in the golfswing, all I'm asking those who depend on this force to just explain how this EXTRA force is applied in the golfswing.
Nothing sinister ... just asking ....
gmbtempe
New
In a sense, yes ... because to whirl the pocket-knife you must jerk your hand around to create the rotation.
Now, since Parametric Acceleration is being applied in the golfswing, all I'm asking those who depend on this force to just explain how this EXTRA force is applied in the golfswing.
Nothing sinister ... just asking ....
I cant explain it because I don't know the technical points to put it into the proper prose........but I can demonstrate it.
birly-shirly
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Are you sure? I can believe that it takes a "jerk" (meaning force perpendicular to the hankie?) to get the weight moving. But do you think that it's a jerking motion that smoothly accelerates the knife once it's in motion?
Is the pocketknife and hankie trick different to the hammerthrower motion that Michael mentioned?
islandgolf629
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This is getting good.
Michael Finney
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In a sense, yes ... because to whirl the pocket-knife you must jerk your hand around to create the rotation.
Now, since Parametric Acceleration is being applied in the golfswing, all I'm asking those who depend on this force to just explain how this EXTRA force is applied in the golfswing.
Nothing sinister ... just asking ....
it seems to me that you're wanting us to catch you up on 5 missed years.....who in their right mind would take that much time off from golf and golf instruction?.......and 4 times worse than that would be a guy who takes off 20 years...i don't understand that protocol
natep
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In a sense, yes ... because to whirl the pocket-knife you must jerk your hand around to create the rotation.
Now, since Parametric Acceleration is being applied in the golfswing, all I'm asking those who depend on this force to just explain how this EXTRA force is applied in the golfswing.
Nothing sinister ... just asking ....
I'm pretty sure I apply it by pulling the left shoulder back and up through impact.
Michael Finney
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apply it like natep says - left shoulder up....how about sadlowski - bend the left arm
how about the scratch golfer in nesbit's study - sharp curve of the hand path at the bottom
lots of ways
how about standing on your toes?
how about jumping in the air?
how about the scratch golfer in nesbit's study - sharp curve of the hand path at the bottom
lots of ways
how about standing on your toes?
how about jumping in the air?
gmbtempe
New
for me its a "lean" of the torso behind me to account for not only the outward force of the club swinging but to aid in "pulling" inward more. More lean=more speed.
Its also a move that facilitates swinging left.
I'm sorry you have a tough time with people using the term "centrifugal force". What about applying the term to the way someone "releases" the club?.........It's fictional, it doesn't exist, and it's a release. That has to be taking it to another level for you!
Otherwise, Bob Grober and mandrin both agree on its existence. The guy nmgolfer (I think) thought like you do - it doesn't exist. I'll use an oldie but a goodie for long time manzella-ites.....I'm going to trust the Applied Physics Professor from Yale before I trust a guy from Avondale.
Before you get upset Steve, I'm just poking fun. I understand your point of view - it's hard to fight city hall and the high school physics books sometimes.
I am not upset at all. I love this stuff. It's when people start making things personal and throw in ad-hominem attacks that I get pissy. I'm animated, but I don't resort to those tactics and it pisses me off when others do. You aren't so I'm happy to discuss it.
I get that many physics professors like it because of the elegance of Newtonian physics. It's seductive to think 3 laws are all you need with a few minor tweaks to compensate for various things.
Problem is, so far as I see it, the club DOESN'T get pulled away from the body by centrifugal force but it does get pulled by gravity.
There is a genuine reason why this concerns me. If indeed the club were being pulled longitudinally along the axis of the shaft-to-sweet spot... then that force would also actively participate in the rotation of the clubface around the axis. Since the toe is the furthest thing away, if centrifugal force existed it would "tug on the toe" to cause the face to align. But it DOESN'T. There is no force pulling on the farthest part of the club away from us.
Let me put that in terms that may simplify the argument.
If centrifugal force existed, Ping Man would not need to have any rotation of the clubface to square up the face because the toe of the club would pull itself away from the center of rotation. BIG PROBLEMO.
In reality if you put the club on a string and whirl it around, the toe would travel along the plane leaving the face open. It would not close all by itself. The sweet spot wants to trail the plane. Unless we apply torque to the shaft which rotates the TOE around the shaft, we would never get the sweet spot off of the plane. You can see this with face balanced putters vs non-balanced putters. To get a face balanced putter the CG of the clubhead is moved in line with the shaft. But our irons are built with the cg away from the shaft. The further away from the shaft that the CG is, the more torque it requires to close the face.
This is what Dr. Wood was talking about at the symposium and how the heel is traveling 10 mph slower than the toe of the clubhead! A torque is applied to "twist" the shaft and close the clubface.
So no, "centrifugal force" does not square up the clubface, nor does it cause a release. Pulling on the club may cause more acceleration due to direction change since F = ma and a change in direction is a change in acceleration, but centrifugal force is not as useful as you think.
The other problem (as I see it) is that if you were to rely on "centrifugal force" to release the club, then you would have to slow down the hands to create speed. So long as the hands are accelerating, the clubhead will trail. So you have two options then if you're going to rely on centrifugal force:
a) Put a brick wall where your hands will be for impact and hope you don't break anything when you hit it.
b) Gradually slow the hands down just to let the clubhead fling out.
I prefer c which is what all of those documents you showed me and Dr. Zick was pointing out. Apply torque to the club SOMEWHERE in the downswing. Both torque to release the clubhead around the wrists, and to square up the face. Gotta be done cause centrifugal force won't do either.
FWIW, I base my belief in "centrifugal forces non-existence" based on what Brian Greene has written. A professor of physics and string theory at Columbia University.
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Define "overcome" for me... not trying to be snide, I just want to make sure I understand what you're asking.
Michael Finney
New
steve,
more to come on the "squaring up" part of your post.....digging some stuff up that might disagree with the current thoughts...
more to come on the "squaring up" part of your post.....digging some stuff up that might disagree with the current thoughts...
Why can't this be due to you "pulling"?
I'm sure "shaft droop" isn't far behind.
Involving the hands/arms/ club like adding to the force on them by gravity or trying to resist that gravitional pull by yanking the club inwards, etc., disturbing the gravitational force. If that makes any sense?
Wasn't that lead and lag?
birly-shirly
New
The more golf science I hear, the more I think that the greatest genius in the game has got to be Bobby Jones.
How about "most important things to watch in the leg movement...as the club nears the ball, the legs should be ready to produce the upward thrust that means so much in power"?
He probably wrote that 50 years ago.
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