natep
New
Perhaps it is. But why would pulling on a golf club pull my arms out of the sockets unless there's something making it weigh considerably more after impact than it does at address?
Centrifugal force and gravity the same?
- Thread starter Virtuoso
- Start date
- Status
Perhaps it is. But why would pulling on a golf club pull my arms out of the sockets unless there's something making it weigh considerably more after impact than it does at address?
Well gravity is a force constantly acting on us and any other object at a rate of 32 feet/sec/sec. Just the mere fact you are standing up means you are "overcoming" it by applying enough force to balance this out. Essentially you are applying 32 feet/sec/sec worth of force in direct opposition to gravity. That keeps you upright.
Now, if you are going to jump in the air, you must apply more force than 32 feet/sec/sec. So you push off of the ground to create this energy.
Putt the club up to the top of our backswing means we must not only apply enough force to overcome this 32 feet/sec/sec but MORE than that to move it upwards. Probably something like 38 feet/sec/sec. This causes an imbalance of force acting on the club which moves it upwards along the plane at a rate of about 6 feet/sec/sec.
However, now that we move to the downswing, that 32 feet/sec/sec is something we use to our advantage. Combine it with the rotational torque we apply through our pivot and hands, and you have 3 forces effectively causing speed.
GRAVITY may be pulling on the club, but not centrifugal force. Gravity is considered a very very weak force though especially considering the amount of force the human body can apply.
Last edited:
Michael Finney
New
nope...it's coming soon....it may be an effect that a model may see, but not a human - but it will be worth discussing
It's called momentum. The club wants to continue on in a straight line.
If you "let go" of the club at that moment it would go straight away at a tangent from when you let it go.. at a right angle to the radius of your swing.
"An object in motion tends to stay in motion."
The only way you pull that motion off of it's path is by applying force. Centrifugal force is the term we use for what "pulls" the club off of it's path. But before that, the club's inertia had no "centrifugal" force at all.
S
SteveT
Guest
Is that how you teach your students to apply Parametric Acceleration? Please get serious otherwise we may suspect you of what you accuse me!
Okay so in effect can we use our gravity since we are larger than the club to overcome the pulling of the clubhead on us or is the force then so great that we can't keep it from pulling us off balance and we have to setup in a certain way to counter balance this effect? If that makes sense?
birly-shirly
New
Ringer - there's some nice thinking in your post, but you don't think that centrifugal force in combination with some anatomical facts of life, helps to square the clubface?
The way I envisage this, the flail action of the arms and club results in the clubhead moving much faster than the hands.
Which means that the clubhead has to pass the hands.
Which means that the left hand needs to supinate.
Which rotates the clubface.
I'm not saying that centrifugal force "wants to square the clubface" but I think the overall effect, combined with how our arms and wrists work, means that there has to be considerable anti-clockwise rotation of the clubface about the shaft for a swing not to be pretty uncomfortable and awkward.
Finetuning this closure to hit controlled curvature isn't automatic or inherent though, more's the pity.
The way I envisage this, the flail action of the arms and club results in the clubhead moving much faster than the hands.
Which means that the clubhead has to pass the hands.
Which means that the left hand needs to supinate.
Which rotates the clubface.
I'm not saying that centrifugal force "wants to square the clubface" but I think the overall effect, combined with how our arms and wrists work, means that there has to be considerable anti-clockwise rotation of the clubface about the shaft for a swing not to be pretty uncomfortable and awkward.
Finetuning this closure to hit controlled curvature isn't automatic or inherent though, more's the pity.
birly-shirly
New
The Manzella Academy is amethodical - but I can think of one method du jour that uses one of those images Michael gave almost word for word.
natep
New
Thanks! That makes sense to me.
S
SteveT
Guest
Okay, Ringer ... I've parsed out the only cogent part of your posting .. the rest is rubbish ...
Let's isolate "the force of gravity" on your golfswing ... that's not hard to do ... in fact it's stupid simple ..!!!
The force of gravity is a 'constant', but you seem to be attributing a variable gravitational force ...
So let's isolate all the gravitational force on your golfswing at Impact ...
Get out a .. driver, and take your Address position ... now go into what you think might be Impact position ..
Now the club and your arms are hanging out in about a 45º plane angle ... what do you feel???
That's it, Ringer ... that's all it is ... your force due to gravity ... nothing more ...!!!!
Is that the gravitational force that you feel is pulling you out ..????
Last edited:
Sorry man, I don't really follow.
S
SteveT
Guest
@ Virtuoso ..... I'd call that a 'full' golfswing ... while most adult rec golfers attempt a 'stiff' golfswing ...
S
SteveT
Guest
Ok, in order for the clubhead to pass the hands, it would have to travel at a faster RPM than the hands. That's tough to do especially when you consider the hands have a shorter circumference to cover. So you either have to apply a torque to the club that accelerates it, or slow down the hands (you could also change the velocity of the hands inward - parametric acceleration). Now, as the arms get extended they slow down sure, but if I remember correctly (and I will have to do some checking up to verify) the hands do not slow down until just shy of impact. Not nearly enough time from when they slow down to impact to account for the clubhead flail around the wrists.
S
SteveT
Guest
Either you're "pretty" or you must be "sure" ... because we're slinging scientific sh!t all over now and nobody can seem to make any of it stick ...
Seriously, I would think that the rotating left shoulder is the primary generator of centripetal force around an established pivot .. somewhere between your shoulders and closer to your left shoulder according to SPS.
The Parametric Acceleration is created by an EXTRA force according to Miura, and all I'm asking those who depend on PA to tell me how it's applied within the golfswing.
So far I see no specific reply.
birly-shirly
New
If I understood Jorgenson correctly, in an efficient swing, the hands do slow down. You don't necessarily slow them down deliberately - but as the wrist-cock angle opens out there is a transfer of momentum from arms to club. If the hands don't slow down whilst the wrists uncock, then it can only be because you are simultaneously applying force to the hands, but they are accelerating less than they would if the wrist angle remained constant, again due to the transfer of momentum to the club.
However, I am sure that in a real swing, we intuitively time and sequence our effort and movement in order that the clubhead can pass the hands relatively smoothly without jarring or straining the wrists, given their natural range of movement. If this requires some adjustment to a theoretical model swing, then I am sure that it'll happen subconsciously, on pain of...pain.
S
SteveT
Guest
Okay, Ringer ... I've parsed out the only cogent part of your posting .. the rest is rubbish ...
Let's isolate "the force of gravity" on your golfswing ... that's not hard to do ... in fact it's stupid simple ..!!!
The force of gravity is a 'constant', but you seem to be attributing a variable gravitational force ...
So let's isolate all the gravitational force on your golfswing at Impact ...
Get out a .. driver, and take your Address position ... now go into what you think might be Impact position ..
Now the club and your arms are hanging out in about a 45º plane angle ... what do you feel???
That's it, Ringer ... that's all it is ... your force due to gravity ... nothing more ...!!!!
Is that the gravitational force that you feel is pulling you out ..????
Ringer ... have you followed my instructions, or are you just hiding from reality because you have assumed that the force of gravity applies or can be applied in a diagonal direction to create a centrifugal 'pull' .... now that concept would reinvent 'Gravity' ... but hey, it's 'golf' where anything goes ....
- Status