Changed backswing photos....

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Eminem

Banned
A while back after a lil thought, I decided to phone Brian up after uploading my swing photos. I was actually reasonably surprised, unlike most people that suggest that they know the inner workings of a swing and am usually able to talk them down in about 5 minutes(infact to be totally truthful I just don't bother with the debate anymore because its pointless and only serves to boost their ego because the forum gives them their platform to pretend they know what their talking about, and just get down to the real good stuff..:D), he gave a very detailed analysis of my swing. The good, the bad and the ugly so to speak.

You may recall when I first joined this forum I cracked down on him. Yet after this call you may have noticed that I have stopped towards Brian because unlike 99% of the golf gurus in the forum and has my respect after that call.

I would now like to post the before and after pictures of how my backswing has changed

BEFORE AND AFTER
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While my posture is still not perfect, it has improved. I am more bent over and my eyes are set more towards the ground as Brian stated on the phone and in his last artical I believe. I have also set my trail elbow more downwards which aids my improved clubplane which you will see in the next pictures

BEFORE AND AFTER

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As a result of the better posture, it makes me feel more like I am taking the club away with less effort to keep it on the correct line. I now feel more as though my tummy muscles are dominant in the takeaway rather than slinging of throwing my arms in the general direction to drag my pivot. I feel instantly more in sync as I begin to take the club back

You can see that the club is better here (although I've lost the before picture)

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The clubplane is better here. At this point before the club would be starting to get a creep a bit inside here. It is more linked to my turn, infact I feel that the turn governs my arm swing in a sence. I think the word transportation would be a good way to describe the feeling of my arm swing here.

BEFORE AND AFTER

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Big change here. The first picture the clubplane is flat and the second shows it more on plane. The club feels more controlled, balanced and more compact.

BEFORE AND AFTER

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This is where the club stops now! Because of the better syncronisation I am now finished my backswing a good foot and a half shorter than before(this is the same club). The right elbow doesn't fly around to move my club back on nearer the plane either.

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Results...

Well it hasn't affected my shot pattern drastically. Im still a reasonable player as I was before. I believe though with the better top of the backswing I now have compensationary moves in the downswing that now do nothing for me. It is new so I don't fire on all cylinders so distance is less by about 30yards which I can only expect when making quite big swing changes.

However I do feel the swing is more controlled and feel it is more comfortable to repeat. I used to have to feel constantly energized to have the energy to do my previous swing time and time again on a consistant basis. My new swing requires alot less athletism to get to the top of the backswing.

I wonder if Brian would like to add to what he likes and doesn't like about my new swing.
 
Very nice, way to make the call! Changes are looking good, you have done what most are affraid to do. If you trust the one that teaches, make the call, don't just read. Hear it. See it. You made the call, and good came of it, more than you could of read. You can now put a voice to the message. Better understanding. Your distance will come back. All correct changes take time and the outcome is a thing of beauty.
 

Eminem

Banned
Will do Brian when I next get the oportunity. Its too cold for golf at the moment but when it heats up a lil then ill be right with the vid.
 

ej20

New
quote:Originally posted by Eminem

Will do Brian when I next get the oportunity. Its too cold for golf at the moment but when it heats up a lil then ill be right with the vid.
Hey Em,your new swing is looking a lot like the one Leadbetter teaches(upright plane halfway back).Have you found new respect for the guy?;)
 

Eminem

Banned
Ej20/Ragman

I suppose your going to say that Tiger Swings like Leadbetter too?

The halfway back point is now more on plane like most tour players.

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Leadbetter sucks in everyway....teaching phylosophies, structure of teaching, .... hes just unfortunately a good marketer and like you, finds some way to speak the lingo to sound cool without any real understanding of what is going on.

The difference between Tiger and me is that he established a better posture and is further away from the ball than me. Im also a just a small bit taller than Tiger too. Tiger hasn't cocked his left wrist totally yet and I have just about. Thats the main points of difference.

Any swing changes in regard to lead are purely in your imagination, or just picking one thing he got right out the other 100 that he got wrong.
 

ej20

New
quote:Originally posted by Eminem

Ej20/Ragman

I suppose your going to say that Tiger Swings like Leadbetter too?

The halfway back point is now more on plane like most tour players.

SPGASGF038_PORT.jpg
fa36ac2b.jpg


Leadbetter sucks in everyway....teaching phylosophies, structure of teaching, .... hes just unfortunately a good marketer and like you, finds some way to speak the lingo to sound cool without any real understanding of what is going on.

The difference between Tiger and me is that he established a better posture and is further away from the ball than me. Im also a just a small bit taller than Tiger too. Tiger hasn't cocked his left wrist totally yet and I have just about. Thats the main points of difference.

Any swing changes in regard to lead are purely in your imagination, or just picking one thing he got right out the other 100 that he got wrong.
Em,no need to be coy..if Lead's method works for you then embrace it.Whatever floats your boat,i always say.:)

And I am NOT ragman...sheesh![V]
 

ej20

New
In all honesty,your halfway back position is probably better than Tiger.He's a little flat.Nothing serious though but he was hitting his driver better when he was more upright.
 
quote:Originally posted by ej20

In all honesty,your halfway back position is probably better than Tiger.He's a little flat.Nothing serious though but he was hitting his driver better when he was more upright.

Hmm Tiger looks perfectly on plane to me. His extensor action is also a little better imo. Then again he has been doing this for 23 years :)
 

ej20

New
quote:Originally posted by densikat

quote:Originally posted by ej20

In all honesty,your halfway back position is probably better than Tiger.He's a little flat.Nothing serious though but he was hitting his driver better when he was more upright.

Hmm Tiger looks perfectly on plane to me. His extensor action is also a little better imo. Then again he has been doing this for 23 years :)
Not saying he's off plane.

Just saying he seemed to hit his driver better when his backswing was a little more upright.That's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Just trying to encourage "lively debate" as Brian would say.:)
 

Eminem

Banned
Im not half the ball striker Tiger is....

Tiger is alot better than me in every aspect of this game but hey, he is the best player in the world so who am I to feel like I have to match him? I just play my game.

His pivot is definately better than mine and he is certainly better at the halfway back point than me. He isn't picture perfect himself but he is certainly better than me.

Although I got to hit some golf today and the swing changes were definately evident. Although I only hit my 8 iron, I was certainly feeling that I am starting to gain good accuracy and felt I hit alot of pure shots (when I do the changes correctly that is). Minus the big thin I had when a big gust blew me badly off balance....lol
 
Em,
the new backswing looks better. hope the changes are sticking.
the changes you made, and you talk about making, are the same changes that any Leadbetter instructor would have told you to make after watching you make 4 or 5 swings. At one time, I had the same setup and backswing that you have in your "before" photos.

Very very easy to diagnose by any instructor. Have you had instruction before? Did they not touch your setup and backswing?
 

Eminem

Banned
NO NO NO.... I am not a leadbetter advocate.

What has happened with my swing is not leadbetter the halfwitted deranged golfing teacher.

What has happened and why ? - I worked on my posture and found myself still trying to throw the club along the takeaway line, in an essence dragging my pivot. With the new posture it made it hard to do this as easily as when standing tall. I have worked before on aiding or transporting the arm swing by the body movement but it never really worked. Changing my posture allows me to take the club away now with less conscience arm movement. Infact at moment its the only way to keep the club even somewhere on the path at all.

I am my own teacher. Since I got a camera my self teaching has gotten alot better.
 

hue

New
quote:Originally posted by pixie

Em,
the new backswing looks better. hope the changes are sticking.
the changes you made, and you talk about making, are the same changes that any Leadbetter instructor would have told you to make after watching you make 4 or 5 swings. At one time, I had the same setup and backswing that you have in your "before" photos.

Very very easy to diagnose by any instructor. Have you had instruction before? Did they not touch your setup and backswing?
That is just not true . I was taught by Denis Pugh Leadbetter's former partner and I can not agree with your comments.
 

ej20

New
quote:Originally posted by Eminem

NO NO NO.... I am not a leadbetter advocate.

What has happened with my swing is not leadbetter the halfwitted deranged golfing teacher.

What has happened and why ? - I worked on my posture and found myself still trying to throw the club along the takeaway line, in an essence dragging my pivot. With the new posture it made it hard to do this as easily as when standing tall. I have worked before on aiding or transporting the arm swing by the body movement but it never really worked. Changing my posture allows me to take the club away now with less conscience arm movement. Infact at moment its the only way to keep the club even somewhere on the path at all.

I am my own teacher. Since I got a camera my self teaching has gotten alot better.
Despite your disgust for Lead,honestly,your halfway back position is exactly like the model in his book.I guess you'll have to junk it and get a new swing....;)
 

Eminem

Banned
I don't know what your obsession with leadbetter is.

Leadbetter is an over rated golf teacher who's own swing looks like the most demented thing you have ever seen. He is no better than some driving range twit coming up to good players with advice he read from golf digest. Infact he is the moron that writes the crap those golf digest mags and I don't see golfers getting better.

Did you know that his son which he has taught since knee high can't even consistantly break 80.

Leadbetter is good if you whack it around everywhere to find a 'drill' that will patch your swing for a whole two shots, then your back to hitting it dead right with a week slice. His drills are often completely unnessesary and completely useless to anyone. Hell, He might even write a drill to take a dump in the loo sometime in his career. Lead in your swing will screw it up faster than you can say finchy.

His analysis of Ben Hogans book made me want to puke.

He takes credit for the tour players that do well 'under his coaches' which get better only because a) their flaws are blatently obvious or b) their playing well despite the changes.

My backswing might look like some picture thats in a book of his, but if you follow his advice you won't even look remotely like his pictures.

Im only working on 'basics'. Thats all I do. I decide what to do with my swing in a collection of changes and I impliment them as best I can. I do not try out moves to see if they work whilst practising as alot do.

I have a different look to my swing halfway back than lets say Brians pupil Mikestloc but I find that I had problems trying to achieve a similar look and my club is pretty good at the top now, so whats the beef?
 

ej20

New
I have no obsession with Lead.I believe every instructor has something to offer so i keep an open mind until i fully understand the philosophy behind their methods.

Every instructor convey their thoughts differently and i believe many are misunderstood by some people and dismissed as rubbish.

I have no beef with you Em,all the best with your swing changes.Just trying to have a humorous exchange with you.
 
quote:Originally posted by Eminem



Did you know that his (Leadbetter's) son which he has taught since knee high can't even consistantly break 80.

Did you know that Manzella has not broken mid 80s for US Open qualifying.
 
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