Changed backswing photos....

[hue]

ei20: Are you a Leadbetter fan?

"And you say you tried Leadbetters positioning for 2 years and it sucked..well,how do you know you were even doing them correctly?"

The whole concept of Positional Golf is a very dodgy way of teaching and has been the ruin of many great players. A lot of the early Leadbetter stuff was focused heavily on this type of thing and this infected the golf world. I think that Leadbetter has learned from this folly but there is no doubt that this Leadbetter links and McLean's steps type of positional golf teaching causes major problems. Instead of making a swing you tend to act out and contrive a swing and that is just not healthy. It also tends to promote too much conscious thinking when playing when you should be swinging on automatic.

 

[ej20]

quote:Originally posted by hue

ei20: Are you a Leadbetter fan?

"And you say you tried Leadbetters positioning for 2 years and it sucked..well,how do you know you were even doing them correctly?"

The whole concept of Positional Golf is a very dodgy way of teaching and has been the ruin of many great players. A lot of the early Leadbetter stuff was focused heavily on this type of thing and this infected the golf world. I think that Leadbetter has learned from this folly but there is no doubt that this Leadbetter links and McLean's steps type of positional golf teaching causes major problems. Instead of making a swing you tend to act out and contrive a swing and that is just not healthy. It also tends to promote too much conscious thinking when playing when you should be swinging on automatic.

I am a student and not an instructor,so I like to study all swing concepts.I don't close my mind like so many people who follow one method.I am not against the people who do,whatever works for you,great.But I really think it's immature to call other instructors morons and whatever just because you think they're wrong.

In any case,my point was not to praise Lead.My point was that building a golf swing by reading a book just does'nt work.You think you are doing what the book is telling you to do,but in fact you are not.You're probably not even setup to the ball correctly to start off with like most amateurs.

 

[ej20]

quote:Originally posted by Eminem

Faldo struck like his balls where dipped in horse poo that day and every day ive ever seen him play. Distance Control is one of the worst parts of his game, I don't know if you've taken truely wacked out hallucinogenics or something, but I can assure you for a fact his distance control is CERTAINLY not his fort'e. Even his deranged ex-coach says its not his fort'e.

I did leadbetter (name is no longer capitalised because hes a 'thing') and Faldo to the letter and I did not get any better. Sure I wasn't as knowledgable as I am now but even still a book should educate and teach you positive things. I had no understanding by this book and I had no positive things from this book.

No offense to you either, but your probably someone thats very stupid when it comes to golf instruction and the fact my swing has changed you could fit it into your imagination that I could be following Flick, McLean or any of the other so called 'troubleshooters' if you tried enough.

You have got to be joking,right?

Distance control and working the ball left and right,high and low was his strength.How did he win 3 British Opens?

Length off the tee was his weakness.

I am not an instructor,and I certainly don't know all the answers..thats why i am here.If i already have it all figured out,i certainly would'nt be wasting my time posting and getting into pointless arguments,right?

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by Eminem

quote:Originally posted by ragman

quote:Originally posted by Eminem

Heres how leadbitter asks you to hold the club in your left hand

A little much in the palm don't ya think.

BM's grip is almost identical.

Who cares what you think....

But to answer your question - Leadbetter puts it in the middle of his heel pad and BM puts it under if you have ever bothered looking at the pdf. You can see the bottom of the grip in BM's hands goes between the natural curve of the hands which is roughly the middle section of the index finger to the bottom or base of the pinky - theres a big difference there !

Lead says put it in your palm and BM is much more in the fingers. Thats pretty easy and plain to see.

But again ragman you have alot to learn....you must be blind !...

Nope, you must have poor perception. They are the same left hand grip.

BM even goes into why he doesn't like a "finger grip" in Do It Right.

For pictures, see Hogan's grip. Manzella has referenced it before as well.

 

[hue]

Brian: What is your opinion on our grip being the same as Leadbetter's? Thanks.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Have you ever looked at LEADBEETER's own grip...YUK!

I could talk for days about what they (The lead academy) teaches, but our grip are not (NOT) alike!

 

[FanofHogan]

Well, all this talk about grips got me to thinking about my own. I have a cut off shaft with a grip on it sitting here in my office. I got to looking at my grip and it is way in the fingers. Brian, comparing the picture of yours to the illustration of Leadbetters, they look similar except the illustration looks to be from a different angle. I am not saying they are the same. Just similar.

 

[Eminem]

quote:Nope, you must have poor perception. They are the same left hand grip.

BM even goes into why he doesn't like a "finger grip" in Do It Right.

For pictures, see Hogan's grip. Manzella has referenced it before as well.

So leadbitter grip is ok ?

The grip must be in the fingers in a neutral state, perhaps if you want to hold it in the palm like lead you can go play natural golf.

The only way you can have it too much in the fingers is if the grip is strong. The grip follows the natural curl of your fingers with the thumb on top or just very fractionally off centre right.

No one can say that I don't have a good grip because you can see from the pictures that my clubface is where it should be in relation to my left hand. I have a good grip and I did not develop it by reading Lead. No one could develop a good grip by reading lead unless their mean't to be phychic and know its wrong.

SO ragman are you taking up natural golf now ?

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Have you ever looked at LEADBEETER's own grip...YUK!

I could talk for days about what they (The lead academy) teaches, but our grip are not (NOT) alike!

I am not talking about Lead's newer grip preference...

Are you saying that the grip pic that Eminem posted and the grip you prefer are not similar?!?

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by Eminem

quote:Nope, you must have poor perception. They are the same left hand grip.

BM even goes into why he doesn't like a "finger grip" in Do It Right.

For pictures, see Hogan's grip. Manzella has referenced it before as well.

So leadbitter grip is ok ?

The grip must be in the fingers in a neutral state, perhaps if you want to hold it in the palm like lead you can go play natural golf.

The grip doesn't HAVE TO (or "must") be in the fingers. See Hogan.

quote:
SO ragman are you taking up natural golf now ?

I'll pass.

Actually, it shouldn't be called "natural golf" in the first place...

 

[Eminem]

Oh and talking about natural golf, even Sandy Lyal looks more 'natural' with his hybrid NG-CG swing than Faldo, I can guarantee you of that because i've seen them both practice for reasonable lengths of time.

But at least we agree that natural golf is just a gimmick.... but don't get too chuffed I still think that yo....actually ill save brian the edit...

 

[hue]

I think Sandy Lyle at one point went to Leadbetter I think he stopped winning after he saw him. Can someone confirm this? Thanks.

 

[ej20]

Leadbetter taught a neutral grip in his first book "The Golf Swing".

Only 2 knuckles are visible.Now I know the use of the word "knuckle" is prohibited in this forum but it is a good reference point when you check your grip in the mirror.I again apologise for using such a dorky word.lol

In any case,is there such a thing as the ideal grip?There have been great ball strikers who have used a weak grip(Hogan,Nicklaus) and strong grip(Elkington,Couples,Daly).

 

[ej20]

quote:Originally posted by Eminem

Oh and talking about natural golf, even Sandy Lyal looks more 'natural' with his hybrid NG-CG swing than Faldo, I can guarantee you of that because i've seen them both practice for reasonable lengths of time.

But at least we agree that natural golf is just a gimmick.... but don't get too chuffed I still think that yo....actually ill save brian the edit...

If a par was needed and my life was at stake,i'd take Faldo's swing over Lyle's any day.

 

[mgjordan]

EM,
What the hell does how a swing looks have to do with anything? Look at Alan Doyle and Jim Thorpe. Those are 2 ugly swings, but they work. Does Jim Furyk look "natural" to you? Sure doesn't to me. What about Kenny Perry's hitch at the top? Doesn't look real natural. However, all of those swings are quality swings and produce quality shots. If the ball is doing what you want it to do time and time again, how can you be doing something wrong?

 

[ej20]

Some people don't care about repeatability.

They just wanna hit the long ball and look good doing it.

 

[mgjordan]

Oh I agree. I take great pride in trying to develope a powerful, solid, good looking swing. However, some people don't. Jason Zuback is HUGE long (I have seen him in person) and his swing is nasty as can be. GOOD mechanics are different than GOOD LOOKING mechanics. I am just pointing out that Faldo hits quality shots time after time and to say his swing is wrong just because he looks contrived (I don't think so) is really pushing it. All I can ask is does he have the three imperatives? If so then what is the problem?

 

[Brian Manzella]

The 'problem' is that LEADBETTER really didn't give this guy 3 better imperatives...

He just adjusted zone#3 somewhat by sacrificing zone#2...

IMO, he could have been EVEN better!