I've wondered about the club length relief. Instead, like this case, the ball could have been moved backwards 1-2 feet in line with the hole and a very similar lie but still had relief from the sprinklers. That way there wouldn't be too much of an advantage gained from the drop.
Charl Shwartzel takes relief?
- Thread starter johnnymarlboro
- Start date
- Status
I've wondered about the club length relief. Instead, like this case, the ball could have been moved backwards 1-2 feet in line with the hole and a very similar lie but still had relief from the sprinklers. That way there wouldn't be too much of an advantage gained from the drop.
faux_maestro
New
I was talking more about the Skins Game incident and others like it. That was when Watson called him out. Others have stated that Gary had a history of lining up shots in the rough with a wood (and in the process tapping the grass down behind the ball) then switching to an iron and hitting a clean shot.
Listen, I am not a pro, haven't played with the man in big tournaments, I wasn't there to see with my own eyes, so I don't REALLY know if there is any truth to the accusations. But, given the nature of golf and golfers, I have a feeling that there may be something to it considering the fact that, from what I gather, more than one golfer has made the accusation.
Now, there is no proof of the lost ball incident, but what about the shot he hit at 18 next to the clubhouse in the same Open? Putting left handed, takes a practice swing, scrapes a lot of dirt away from behind the ball. I remember the first time I saw it when I was a kid and thought "hey is that legal?". Of course this was in the early '90's and I couldn't call in and get him disqualified
Last edited:
faux_maestro
New
This might be a situation that the USGA should look at considering he went from light rough to fairway. Isn't it a rule that when dropping from casual water in a bunker you can't drop outside of the bunker? You hit it in the rough, you should have to stay in the rough.
That being said, I don't have a problem with Schwartzel or the drop considering he asked an official. The official could have denied the drop, I've seen it happen before.
Last edited:
Matt Bryda
New
I think the official was trying to get charl to show him that the irrigation head area was in the way for him to play the shot he intended to play. Kind of like declaring your ball unplayable or at least in the same light. "The golfer's right" although this one was free, no penalty.
BrendanC
New
Once he gets the drop, he is entitled to make full use of it. It would be unprofessional not to. The commentators on Sky (European - they kick in because the ad breaks in the US are too long) thought Faldo made a meal of his commentary about the incident, and that Schwartzel was definitely entitled to a drop.
Schwartzel joins a list of unfairly maligned South Africans (including Player, and before him Bobby Locke).
As for improving the lie: Player was accused of this by Tom Watson when Watson was acting like a total a**hole in a wide variety of settings.
Is tapping down grass behind the ball improving the lie? I don't do it but technically, some will say it is not. I remember Kenny Perry doing something similar with a 5 wood - but that video has been removed by the PGA Tour.
This one is still available though:
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NKsioAyR9Fs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Schwartzel joins a list of unfairly maligned South Africans (including Player, and before him Bobby Locke).
As for improving the lie: Player was accused of this by Tom Watson when Watson was acting like a total a**hole in a wide variety of settings.
Is tapping down grass behind the ball improving the lie? I don't do it but technically, some will say it is not. I remember Kenny Perry doing something similar with a 5 wood - but that video has been removed by the PGA Tour.
This one is still available though:
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NKsioAyR9Fs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
What was the incident with Darren Clarke a couple of years ago? He got relief from something, improved his lie markedly, and then chipped out anyway. There is a difference between how some people use the rules - I think Charl definitely stretched the sporting definition, if not the literal definition, and unlike the other major sports where there is a culture of rules stretching, in golf, the players' jury will notice this one.
BrendanC
New
The Clarke incident happened in 2006 at the Irish Open. Clarke was in contention when a rain delay on Day 4 meant play was stopped for the night. The players left their balls on the course; in Clarke's case that was in very heavy rough. Overnight, somebody significantly improved Clarke's lie. He called for a ruling, and was told he could play it as it lay by rules officials.
Because he did not want to gain an unfair advantage, he chipped out sideways.
Darren Clarke: 'It was in a better lie than when I left it. I could have hit it on to the front of the green but if I had done I would have held my head in shame walking all the way to the green so I just decided to chip it out and play it like I would have last night.'
He won 'Shot of the Month' for chipping out sideways - a great act of sportsmanship.
On reflection, if Charl was really concerned he should probaby have dropped two feet behind the sprinkler rather than out on the fairway.
Because he did not want to gain an unfair advantage, he chipped out sideways.
Darren Clarke: 'It was in a better lie than when I left it. I could have hit it on to the front of the green but if I had done I would have held my head in shame walking all the way to the green so I just decided to chip it out and play it like I would have last night.'
He won 'Shot of the Month' for chipping out sideways - a great act of sportsmanship.
On reflection, if Charl was really concerned he should probaby have dropped two feet behind the sprinkler rather than out on the fairway.
ZAP
New
That makes sense. Maybe it was just how the announcers reacted to it that made me think it was such a grey area decision.
welshdentist
New
Seve would have asked for a drop and people would have smirked at how cheeky he was....
Charl knows what he did and has his own thoughts i'm sure
Charl knows what he did and has his own thoughts i'm sure
perhaps ask Tom Watson what Gary Player would do!Or the handful other players that know for a fact no great player took more liberties with the rules than GP. '74 Open ring a bell?
I don't get it, if there was a definable time period when Tom Watson was acting like an total asshole in a wide variety of settings, how do you attribute his actions to a conspiracy against South African golfers?
Player's tendency to push his own advantage is well known. Watson's reaction was based on the fact that he watches Player like a hawk. In the Skins game incident it seems Watson may have leveled the bazooka at the mosquito! My point was that Player at the very least (like Seve) would get everything he could get out of a ruling. Reference to he lost ball incident in the '74 Open was in poor taste and irrelevant.
- Status