Closed Out-Toss helped me

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Tophdad

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Hi all,

I've fought a flip pretty much my entire golfing life. I think I am making some progress. The swings are a day apart and the only conscious difference I made between the two swings is that in the second swing I focused on doing a "closed out-toss."

Before:
Before Closed Out-toss - YouTube

After:
Closed Out-toss - YouTube

Still work to do, but i think it is improvement. Credit and thanks due to Kevin and Brian for all the help.

Comments welcome.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Per our discussion, I think this is a phenomenal change in a day. Exemplifies what some of these concepts can do in a short time.
 
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OLIVER1

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Just incredible...Tophdad, the change is so dramatic, you must have lit up like a Christmas tree when you saw the change for the first time...I'm very jealous. Congrats.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Made me smile....great work and proof of how far off the detractors are in explaining what we teach and how the golf swing really works.
 
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Tophdad

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I was so pumped, not just by the difference in video, but by the ball flight.

spktho - in my first swing Kevin spotted that I had a wide open clubface from transition to impact. With a wide open face (and being inside/steep) I had nothing to tumble into the ball. It was flip or shank city. In my "better" swing I am performing the out toss by imagining a wall behind me and am uncocking the club going palm down (right hand). To me this felt like a super-shut clubface; but it lets me have a chance of getting my hands "to the ball."

Never would have made this improvement without Kevin and Brian's help, shows how important it is to know what you're doing wrong, what you're supposed to do, and HOW you start doing it.
 
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Tophdad

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Kevin - compared to before it feels like the club face is pointed almost to the ground, right palm more on top. It feels VERY different from what I was doing before.
 
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Tophdad

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DC - one day, not the first ball though haha. On the good swing the ball was dead straight and had a flatter more penetrating trajectory, feels like the ball holds its line better, tighter.
 
JEREMY5577

JEREMY5577

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Tophdad said:
I was so pumped, not just by the difference in video, but by the ball flight.

spktho - in my first swing Kevin spotted that I had a wide open clubface from transition to impact. With a wide open face (and being inside/steep) I had nothing to tumble into the ball. It was flip or shank city. In my "better" swing I am performing the out toss by imagining a wall behind me and am uncocking the club going palm down (right hand). To me this felt like a super-shut clubface; but it lets me have a chance of getting my hands "to the ball."

Never would have made this improvement without Kevin and Brian's help, shows how important it is to know what you're doing wrong, what you're supposed to do, and HOW you start doing it.
Click to expand...
Tophdad, Can you explain a little more what the wall behind you represents?
 
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Tophdad

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Jeremy - sorry, the wall is behind me (3 o'clock), I am uncocking the club towards the wall while twisting the shaft closed
 
JEREMY5577

JEREMY5577

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Tophdad said:
Jeremy - sorry, the wall is behind me (3 o'clock), I am uncocking the club towards the wall while twisting the shaft closed
Click to expand...
Ok thats what I thought. So were you hitting some shots left until you got the feel for it? Can you tell your hands are further forward at impact? What I mean is did it feel like you had to change your timing at all to line it up later?
 
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Tophdad

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Some left shots, some heavy shots. I had to remember to finish the darn swing. The hands felt further forward, but not much. I wasn't trying to take my hands deeper, they just got there. Took a few swings to trust it if you know what I mean.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Tophdad is a perfect example of a common problem that is rife at all levels. The club set on line or slightly across causes backed up shallow hits and inside steep shafts with open faces. Especially if you had a little tug and poor handpath. Does anyone see a top player do this?Greg Norman came the closest IMO. So you have to do something different. I've always maintained the transition move separates swings.

Tophdad obviously has talent to make this change but the moral is.....do what's being asked!! A lot of research has gone into suggestions like these and if you can put forces on the club consistent with what Nesbit has written about and add a few components customized for individual needs, you can get results. If you insist on doing the same thing over and over.....well
 
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OLIVER1

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Tophdad,
How did your ball flight change?
Did you change your tempo and rhythm to fit, or did they alter themselves automatically as a nice by-product?
 
gmbtempe

gmbtempe

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What happened from 2010 to 2012, it was not that bad in the original videos, it was getting flippy but relatively flat at impact, then the one yesterday was about horrendous in terms of flip as you noted? Much better today obviously.
 
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Tophdad

New
2010 I was trying to hit DOWN with a flat left wrist. I mean I was trying like hell to have shaft lean at impact and that's as close as I got back then. Very inconsistent and I had bouts of shanks. Couldn't play with it because I was pulling everything left and would revert to just flipping and picking clean so I could get around the course. I have other videos from the same time period that look very different - trying about everything.

Oliver - ball flight flatter, straighter, further. Tempo and rhythm are pretty similar in the videos I think; I didn't try to change anything in that regard.
 
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