Club Fitting Scenario

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matt kluck

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For those of you who fit for a living or are preparing to do club fitting on a steady basis please allow me to caution you on what a I found out conducting a controlled experiment with a world reknowned clubfitter at a PGA Continuing Education Program about 2001 in Pinehurst. I hope this helps all of you and I encourage debate on the issue.

The same player hit the ball with the same club, a six iron, once off of the turf and once off of the lie board with face tape alternatively. This player has made the cut at numerous U.S. Opens and won many sectional events:D. Here are the results.:mad:

Test 1
Lie Board and Face Tape

1. 192 yards
2. 191 yards
3. 187 yards
4. 194 yards
5. 194 yards
6. 189 yards
7. 191 yards
8. 185 yards
9. 194 yards
10. 191 yards

Average Distance-191 yards

No Tape or Lie Board
1. 177 yards
2. 182 yards
3. 179 yards
4. 175 yards
5. 181 yards
6. 183 yards
7. 177 yards
8. 179 yards
9. 176 yards
10. 181 yards

Average Distance-179 yards

Same person, same club and can you imagine the effect of the this information on a quality fitting. 12 total yards per strike average! Unimaginable!

It makes the lie board appropriately named.

Best of luck to you all!

MK
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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Matt,

I've read for a while about face impact tape reducing spin. Do you believe the extra distance is due to the tape or the lie board? I think they have a spray you can use or I've seen somepeople draw sharpie on the club side of the ball.

What have you changed since this experiment?
 
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matt kluck

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Lie Board

I have never used a lie board to fit and the lines drawn with a marker on the impact side of the ball is very useful to identify impact.

The skid factor of the lie board(similar to the effect of a flier or the grass laying favorably toward the target) and the reduction of spin by the face tape have influence on the data.

When was the last time you saw a club fitting specialist change the hitting condition during a fitting? Just curious.

MK
 
otto6457

otto6457

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matt kluck said:
I have never used a lie board to fit and the lines drawn with a marker on the impact side of the ball is very useful to identify impact.

The skid factor of the lie board(similar to the effect of a flier or the grass laying favorably toward the target) and the reduction of spin by the face tape have influence on the data.

When was the last time you saw a club fitting specialist change the hitting condition during a fitting? Just curious.

MK
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I guess I am completely confused. How do you accurately measure lie without a lie board? I recently had my wedges checked for lie and had them flattened 1 degree due to a slight toe mark on the lie board. Plus, I have been missing left more than usual.

Did I waste my time?
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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matt kluck said:
I have never used a lie board to fit and the lines drawn with a marker on the impact side of the ball is very useful to identify impact.

The skid factor of the lie board(similar to the effect of a flier or the grass laying favorably toward the target) and the reduction of spin by the face tape have influence on the data.

When was the last time you saw a club fitting specialist change the hitting condition during a fitting? Just curious.

MK
Click to expand...

I've only seen it once, and when it happened, I asked why and they pretty much said what you and chip say. Certain aspects for club then back on the grass for performance.

Very few club fitting specialists have grass and flight access. Don't have a good one in my area, IMO.
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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otto6457 said:
I guess I am completely confused. How do you accurately measure lie without a lie board? I recently had my wedges checked for lie and had them flattened 1 degree due to a slight toe mark on the lie board. Plus, I have been missing left more than usual.

Did I waste my time?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why they were flattened if you already had toe marks unless you meant to say heel marks.

Are your left misses from less than full pitches?


Wedges are very tricky. As you change swing speed and where you hold it all have an impact on the lie angle and they change so much because of how versatile they need to be.

Did they do the fitting at full speed and less than full speed? Did they do it for leading edge and midsole shots? Did they incude shots that's you choked down on.
 
TROYNYGOLFER

TROYNYGOLFER

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matt kluck said:
I have never used a lie board to fit and the lines drawn with a marker on the impact side of the ball is very useful to identify impact.

The skid factor of the lie board(similar to the effect of a flier or the grass laying favorably toward the target) and the reduction of spin by the face tape have influence on the data.

When was the last time you saw a club fitting specialist change the hitting condition during a fitting? Just curious.

MK
Click to expand...

Which brings me to a question. Any advice for those of us who live outside a major metroplitan area to find a good fitter? I know BManz gave a plug to Cool Clubs, but if I ever tried to fly that far for a clubfitting I would be in divorce proceedings. I have a TaylorMade lab with MATT and a Hot Stix within a reasonable distance. I do not like the TM idea, I am limiting myself to one manufacturer. My current thought is to get on a Trackman as a part of a lesson and bring the results with me to a local fitter. Any other alternatives? The bonus question is how involved should my instructor be in the process? :confused:
 
mgranato

mgranato

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The lie board is around for one purpose, best I can tell, and I don't see the reason to care about yardages hit from one. The data is interesting as a trivial point, but I can't see any influence it would have in a fitting other than tweaking dynamic lie angles.

The poor man's lie board is concrete, wonder what those yardages would look like? :) Seems like you would learn how to cure too much "down" in that study. :eek:
 
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rogerdodger

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I cannot imagine buying an iron without hitting it off grass. The last time I did that, I hit it great off a mat and lie board. Off grass they were totally wrong for my swing at that time. Most shops have demos you can take out to a range or better yet to the course. I do not think the disparity identified between grass and a lie board is unusual.
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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Kevin Shields said:
My question about the sharpie line is what if the person doesnt hit the exact back of the ball?
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The line won't be straight up and down. Inside of line-mark bends toward hosel. Outside of line-mark bends toward toe.

It's not exact but it can give a decent estimate.

I think the spray is the best I've heard of.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
ggsjpc said:
The line won't be straight up and down. Inside of line-mark bends toward hosel. Outside of line-mark bends toward toe.

It's not exact but it can give a decent estimate.

I think the spray is the best I've heard of.
Click to expand...

Do you have the name of the spray?
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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Interesting. I'm not a big fan of lie boards either. I read somewhere that basically the lie boards cause the golfer to think they need a more upright lie than they really do. And that doesn't surprise me.

My best guess with the fitting of irons is to hit off grass and use impact tape.




3JACK
 
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