clubface control is very elusive...

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Bolt said:
So how do you achieve this (fixing the PATH of the good player)?? ZERO out the path?? Any specific drills or backswing downswing feels? Simply swinging more left?
Click to expand...

It is not simple, but doable.

In some cases, you may have to have the better player swing further right—they all don't swing TOO FAR to the right.

The complete control of "true path" is fairly involved, and includes pivot issues, right arm positioning, and in some cases more "tumble."

Bolt said:
This is great too because I have been teaching a lot of poor players working on that clubface and it has been helpful but better players (especially those with a noticeable downswing coming from the inside) have been hooking or sweeping draw or even push straight right. Completely makes sense.
Click to expand...

I try. ;)
 
E

erobbins

New
Brian Manzella said:
Stop right there.

Impossible.

You problem is path.

PATH.

Not clubface.

Only way to get those shots in a group.

For example:
Your PLANE LINE is 3° inside-out, you hit down 5°,
so your path is:

6° inside-out with a 6-iron

6° inside-out with a 3° open face is a nice draw at the target.

6° inside-out with a 8° open face is a push-fade

6° inside-out with a 1° open face is start-just-to-the-right hook that misses the target way, way left!

​
Sounds like a clubface problem, huh?

Not so fast my little friend! :D

You see, when you learn to get your path closer to ZERO, clubface control is MUCH easier.

And after watching a bunch of good players on TrackMan, I have a new mantra:


If your are a average to below average golfer (handicap 10 or higher) and you are having trouble improving...

You have a Clubface problem.




If your are a better than average golfer without a large left-to-right ball flight (single digit handicap or lower) and you are having trouble improving...

You have a Clubhead Path problem.

​
Mark that down, babe. :cool:
Click to expand...

ok.. I don't get it.

if someone's path was 3° in-out every time, and the face was varying degrees of open or closed, how is that a path problem? the path is consistent!
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Second Try.

erobbins said:
ok.. I don't get it.

if someone's path was 3° in-out every time, and the face was varying degrees of open or closed, how is that a path problem? the path is consistent!
Click to expand...

Bad example by me.

Let me do a better job this time...more realistic.

Ball #1: Path 3° inside-out, Face 0° square, big draw left of target

Golfer to Self: "Boy I must have come over the top of that one, I won't this (next) time."

Ball #2: Path 6° inside-out, Face 3° open, nice draw at the target

Golfer to Self: "Boy I sure am glad I learned not to come over the top."

Ball #3: Path 6° inside-out, face 7° open, push cut in the water.

Golfer to Self: "I can't believe I blocked that one. I'll 'release' on this next one."

Ball #4: Path 6° inside-out, face 1° closed, broken window in house on left
​

PATH PROBLEM!
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

New
Brian,

So, we've had threads on here discussing the relative importance of face and path. I think I can categorize your previous beliefs as face being more important than path. Is it more clearly stated now that face is more important than path for average and below average golfers and path is more important than face for above average players? Or is it plain as you stated that in order to improve follow your mantra from above?
 
texagjosh

texagjosh

New
It'd be nice if we could all work with Trackman on a daily basis to figure out how we're really attacking the ball contrary to what our mind thinks.

There's a lot of info that people can't get, so they never improve. It sucks being blind with regards to a path for improvement and consistency.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
ggsjpc said:
Brian,

So, we've had threads on here discussing the relative importance of face and path. I think I can categorize your previous beliefs as face being more important than path. Is it more clearly stated now that face is more important than path for average and below average golfers and path is more important than face for above average players? Or is it plain as you stated that in order to improve follow your mantra from above?
Click to expand...

When I did the PGA Summit in the Tri-State section last year, I said:

"Fix the slicers with the face first and the hookers with the path first."
 
Steve Greffen

Steve Greffen

New
Yes yes yes, 1000 times yes!! Brian that better player scenario is so accurate. I would add to that path problem that there is a knowledge problem in that they don't know the face path relationship and resort to other fixed that make their situation worse.

Terrific stuff!

Steve
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
We should have a thread on how to "zero" out some paths because ive done some things i would have never done without the data.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
dannyc said:
ever since i discovered this site, i have often wondered why so many teachers teach a face that lays "on the plane" for every golfer
Click to expand...

It is just dumb that it is not common knowledge.

I didn't come up with it myself (I learned in here) but the fact that slice fixing is not common knowledge is a bit of a joke and shows how slow the golf teaching business works.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
......tum-BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

The "Tumble"...

This will be a big part of the downswing of the "Baby Fade" pattern.

But...

As a teaser....


It is the late downswing movement of the clubhead from INSIDE the hands, to OUTSIDE the hands, where they are at impact. :cool:

Why is it called TUMBLE?

Because the WEIGHT of the club can cause the club to TUMBLE, assist in the TUMBLE, or do the same in the opposite direction—

The dreaded REVERSE TUMBLE!!!
 
D

dannyc

New
Brian Manzella said:
The "Tumble"...

This will be a big part of the downswing of the "Baby Fade" pattern.

But...

As a teaser....


It is the late downswing movement of the clubhead from INSIDE the hands, to OUTSIDE the hands, where they are at impact. :cool:

Why is it called TUMBLE?

Because the WEIGHT of the club can cause the club to TUMBLE, assist in the TUMBLE, or do the same in the opposite direction—

The dreaded REVERSE TUMBLE!!!
Click to expand...

trying to understand this...
seems that the club moves inside the hands b/c the right wrist bends and/or the left arm rotates...
are you saying that the weight of the clubhead can help square the face? and that if you are too under the sweetspot, that would cause a revearse tumble?
prolly waaayyy off here, just guessing.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
What happens when you reverse tumble?

Shank?!?

(I fixed my keyboard and question mark problems)

(I think it started with a plum sauce spill...I must've triggered something while cleaning and mashing keys)
 
J

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
The reverse tumble would be severely underplane causing all sorts of problems.

Essentially this in my mind is letting the roll of left hand in the downswing kick the sweetspot out to the ball.
 
N

niblick1

New
Brian Manzella said:
Stop right there.

If your are a better than average golfer without a large left-to-right ball flight (single digit handicap or lower) and you are having trouble improving...[/SIZE]

You have a Clubhead Path problem.

[/INDENT]Mark that down, babe. :cool:
Click to expand...

Yeah, learning at the ManzellaAcademyTrackmaninar in Maryland that I had a path 6-7 degrees LEFT with a 6-iron was an eye-opener (I may have taken the whole Swing Lefter movement just a tad far...). Moving it more right has been hard, but I'm getting there and hitting the ball farther (and I can even hit a low hook now that doesn't start left of left, which I literally could not hit before). I would have NEVER have figured that path issue out on my own. I'm working on playing a tiny draw instead of the mid-sole/lob-cut shot I was unintentionally playing two months ago.....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top