"Clubface control separates the best players"

[birdie_man]

This is a revisit. (of topic)

Mike Finney and Brian I think used to say clubface control separated the best players.

What have you learned now? (that you can measure things precisely)

Brian, Mike? (or others)

 

[SteveT]

Ummmm ... do you mean "conscious" control .. or "non-conscious" control ???

There is a difference, you know ...

 

[Frans@France]

consistancy separates.

 

[SteveT]

^^^

... is 'consistency' consciously or non-consciously applied ... or is it something like half'n half ... and which half is which function ...

 

[Frans@France]

^^^

... is 'consistency' consciously or non-consciously applied ... or is it something like half'n half ... and which half is which function ...

I don't think when playing like 4* outside-in and -1* face consistently would make no difference to the ball whether it is applied consciously or non-consciously.

 

[SteveT]

^^^

The ball doesn't have a conscious/non-conscious brain ... YOU do ...

 

[ScottRob]

Steve T -

This is not a scientific treatment. The way I look at it is that I am very conscious of

1. The target
2. Wind etc.
3. Club selection
4. Shot shape
5. Setting up to the ball

After that it is all a blur! I do a lot of thinking and puzzle-solving but when I step up to the pull the trigger I (try) to clear my mind of conscious thoughts. It is a lot like Pia Nielsen's (sp?) line of committment, or something like that.

These days i have caught myself thinking about torquing the grip!

 

[ScottRob]

This is a revisit. (of topic)

Mike Finney and Brian I think used to say clubface control separated the best players.

What have you learned now? (that you can measure things precisely)

Brian, Mike? (or others)

Even though hinge action is a non-factor you have to figure that the game is still mostly about the face, right? I think that you can play with all kinds of paths if the face is properly matched. I can make a huge over the top move with the face square to the path but closed to the target and hit a straight pull, then just aim it right, right? The ball does not give a rip.

I understand that some swing difficulties are more path related, but you have got to figure that the most immediate improvement can be achieved by controlling the face better.

I am glad that hinge action was blown up, I never did quite get it! I just could not understand how I could influence the ball during the impact interval.

 

[SteveT]

Steve T -

These days i have caught myself thinking about torquing the grip!

Nothing wrong with conscious thought when executing the golfswing, but not when there is not enough time to execute what you wish to do. You have to separate conscious decision-making from desperation ... which you seem to do rationally.

You learn consciously, but you perform non-consciously.

 

[ScottRob]

I agree, even if neuroscience is voodoo to me (although I have learned a lot from Geoff Mangum.)

I can get away from thinking about torquing the grip because it is how I "start" the downswing.

Video suggests I load my left foot...tilt the axis long before my hands do anything, but it feels like it is from the top of the swing.

I think evidence that I do in actual fact do it is that I have a slightly bowed left wrist at impact. Now that I can tumble it without hitting a hook...I will eventually forget about the conscious "swing key" and free wheel it like it is1999!

 

[mb6606]

I am not sure what else it can be - the most impressive victory of the year had to be Louis Oosthuizen at the Open winning by 7 shots.
Louis Oosthuizen Wins British Open Golf Championship - WSJ.com

 

[aaron_lohan]

Short game has been statistically proven as the factor which separates the top players.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Clubface Control....

I really don't even use the term much anymore.

If you match everything up correctly, you'll have all the "clubface control" in the world.

 

[SteveT]

I really don't even use the term much anymore.

If you match everything up correctly, you'll have all the "clubface control" in the world.

Absolutely ... because the club has no "swing" ... it's only dead inertia to be controlled throughout the kinetic/kinematic chain starting from the ground up.

Control the cause and you control the clubface ... plain & simple.

 

[alexandjacob]

did you notice

I am not sure what else it can be - the most impressive victory of the year had to be Louis Oosthuizen at the Open winning by 7 shots.
Louis Oosthuizen Wins British Open Golf Championship - WSJ.com

speaking of LOUIS

did you notice when he plays he uses a glove on his left hand

no, nothing odd at all...except did you notice the RED dot.....on the top of his glove

the red dot reminded

him to make sure to keep hands ahead of ball

ur welcome

 

[mb6606]

speaking of LOUIS

did you notice when he plays he uses a glove on his left hand

no, nothing odd at all...except did you notice the RED dot.....on the top of his glove

the red dot reminded

him to make sure to keep hands ahead of ball

ur welcome

Right it is discussed in the WSJ article!

 

[birdie_man]

Ummmm ... do you mean "conscious" control .. or "non-conscious" control ???

There is a difference, you know ...

Was talking about neither as you know Steve! You are onto something nonetheless.

...

Thanks Brian, and everyone.

Club control. Ball control. Measurable on Trackman. How to achieve/repeat? BIG puzzle.

At you again Steve, some of your best posting so far, be it (somewhat) off topic/cryptic or not.

To carry on- one needs to know what to habitualize first. Or you could let the non-conscious pick by default. I'd imagine you'd want to use both conscious and non-c to your best advantage. What/when/how.

Skills>>habits>>release.

 

[birdie_man]

Even though hinge action is a non-factor you have to figure that the game is still mostly about the face, right? I think that you can play with all kinds of paths if the face is properly matched. I can make a huge over the top move with the face square to the path but closed to the target and hit a straight pull, then just aim it right, right? The ball does not give a rip.

I understand that some swing difficulties are more path related, but you have got to figure that the most immediate improvement can be achieved by controlling the face better.

I am glad that hinge action was blown up, I never did quite get it! I just could not understand how I could influence the ball during the impact interval.

Interesting post. Maybe you speak of talent in "compensations", SR.

Brian has said before too that most better players need path fixes, worse players need clubface.

I guess everything we do affects (controls, for better or worse) the clubface if it's in relation to the ball.

Mostly I think of the hands I guess. "Clubface control." I'll have to rethink it I guess...hmm...

...

I hear you on hinge actions btw. Interesting concept, but I found it a little odd at times as well. "Does not compute."

(did not know exactly why, or what I was missing)

 

[ScottRob]

I know Brian is right on this point i.e. face for high handicappers and path for low handicappers. Although I am a low handicapper I found immediate help with focusing on the face. I tend to get uber underplane, so I learned to match the face with the path, and then learned to aim it left. I guess over time I will need to attend to the path issue, although I think it "is what it is."

Biggest game changer for me is hitting up on the ol' thunderstick! Is 17* degree launch angle any good for an 8* driver?

 

[ScottRob]

Interesting post. Maybe you speak of talent in "compensations", SR.

Isn't that what it is all about? Compensating? Perhaps this is a semantics thing, but I feel like "swinging left" is compensation for the downward angle of attack, right? If you don't adjust, compensate, respond, address, this then you are non-compliant. I have heard that some folks denigrate the d-plane with talk of "compensation golf" but to me this is compliance golf.