clubfitting: longer shaft for irons necessary?

[mjstrong]

got it guys, thanks for all the input...love this place

It's a huge asset to the online golf world, no doubt.

 

[mjstrong]

Longer the club the stiffer it needs especially in the woods to keep same type of "launch conditions."

True, and I find it much more effective to reduce my lengths in the longer clubs (since i believe the manufacturers' standards are too long) than stiffen the shafts.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

True, and I find it much more effective to reduce my lengths in the longer clubs (since i believe the manufacturers' standards are too long) than stiffen the shafts.

I remember that i did a theoretical model on % of sweetspots hit with a shorter driver and total "average" distance versus % of sweetspots hit with a longer driver and "average" distance. In essence, if you consistently hit the sweetspot more often with say a 0.5" shorter driver your total average distance will most likely be higher with the shorter driver than the longer driver; however obviously your longest drives would still be shorter but as i said on average you'd be longer more often.

 

[tongzilla]

I'm surprised that more people don't have lie angles that vary throughout the set. It seems strange that most people would need the same progression of lie angles (and other variables, for that reason) through the set. I think, if everybody were ideally fitted, you'd see way more variation in lie angles and lengths.

I've retro-fit (post purchase) quite a few people for flatter lie angles in their wedges, for example, and more upright lies in their long irons.

Lie angles do vary across clubs I thought.

 

[softconsult]

"I've retro-fit (post purchase) quite a few people for flatter lie angles in their wedges, for example, and more upright lies in their long irons." The flatter wedge lie angle was another question I asked Brian during my lesson. His answer? "Why would you do that."

 

[SteveT]

"I've retro-fit (post purchase) quite a few people for flatter lie angles in their wedges, for example, and more upright lies in their long irons." The flatter wedge lie angle was another question I asked Brian during my lesson. His answer? "Why would you do that."

I prefer more upright lies for my wedges and short to mid iron, and regular lie for my longer clubs. Why? Because I can easily execute a more inclined swing with my wedges which provides more accuracy, and, I resort to regular lies for more distance. I'm tall and slender so I can accommodate a steeper swing. My clubs are +1" and 2º up, except for my driver and fairways which are only longer.

The only reason I can see somebody needing flatter wedges and short irons but more upright longer clubs is to accommodate their body structure. What kind of swing style needs flatter lie wedges and more upright long clubs.

Golf is a game of compensations...!

 

[magicmarker]

Was messing around at the range and just so happened there was a Ping fitting thing going on.
I hit a few 7 irons and apparently the guy said my iron shafts need to be 0.5 to 1 inch longer than standard.
I am not sure if it's sales talk trying to get me buy a new set or what. I'm 6'0" with normal length arms (me thinks anyway). What do you guys think?

I don't understand, did he see you hit any iron shots with longer shafts, .5" or 1"?

Sounds like bogus sales pitch to me. Wouldn't be the first....

 

[grahler]

Steve T,

Did I read you right that you said you change to upright for wedges and standard for longer clubs for distance?! reasons?
If I read that correctly all I can say is WOW. Really?

 

[SteveT]

grahler, I shouldn't respond to you, but here goes....

I'm tall and slim so I can execute a steeper swing with my wedges which gives me more accuracy even though I may use an extra club for distance. However for my longer clubs like driver and fairways, I suffer from distance "compression" with a steeper swing.... so I opt for longer clubs and attempt a flatter swing for more distance.

Why are you surprised?

 

[mjstrong]

"I've retro-fit (post purchase) quite a few people for flatter lie angles in their wedges, for example, and more upright lies in their long irons." The flatter wedge lie angle was another question I asked Brian during my lesson. His answer? "Why would you do that."

Because a small percentage of my wedge shots are stock, full swings that would match the swings I make in the rest of my set.

I fit people for their wedges by having them hit the types of shots that they use those wedges for, and pick a lie angle that best fits all situations.

 

[mjstrong]

Lie angles do vary across clubs I thought.

Yes, but I meant vary relative to standards. So, instead of each club being .5° more upright and 1/2" longer than the previous one, why wouldn't there be different models of progression?

EDIT: Sorry for my seemingly slow response time - away on vacation right now...

 

[mjstrong]

I remember that i did a theoretical model on % of sweetspots hit with a shorter driver and total "average" distance versus % of sweetspots hit with a longer driver and "average" distance. In essence, if you consistently hit the sweetspot more often with say a 0.5" shorter driver your total average distance will most likely be higher with the shorter driver than the longer driver; however obviously your longest drives would still be shorter but as i said on average you'd be longer more often.

Agree 100%, and would also propose that longer shafts do not always result in faster clubhead speed in a human golfer anyways. Hooked up to Pingman, we know there is a very calculable, linear increase in CH speed as club length increases.

I'm sure that somebody smarter than I can speak on how the changes in weight, intertia, acceleration profiles, and release patterns could all potentially be affected with shaft length changes.

 

[mgranato]

Agree 100%, and would also propose that longer shafts do not always result in faster clubhead speed in a human golfer anyways. Hooked up to Pingman, we know there is a very calculable, linear increase in CH speed as club length increases.

I'm sure that somebody smarter than I can speak on how the changes in weight, intertia, acceleration profiles, and release patterns could all potentially be affected with shaft length changes.

Additionally, adding length to a club (too much) is an easy way to change a players plane and path, and almost always for the worse.

 

[grahler]

Longer clubs equal less directional control to me.
With irons isn't the primary goal to control direction and distance?

 

[softconsult]

"Longer clubs equal less directional control to me.
With irons isn't the primary goal to control direction and distance? "

Think you are missing the point. In my opinion, the point is obtaining a correct fit for a particular
person's body and swing. Do you think Michael Jordan would play better with standard length irons?

 

[grahler]

Soft,

So I am missing the point of what works for me? lol
Don't you think it's a big difference between being 6'7" than a six foot tall guy?
I have never seen the longer club less control rule fail. Try hitting a 47 inch driver. I would never choose to sacrifice accuracy in iron play. I am also wary of salesmanship in the club industry-I find I do better by sticking with clubs for a long time and really having confidence in what they do for me instead of chasing the latest and greatest shiny new things to come down the pipe.
IMO its the Indian not the arrow.

 

[magicmarker]

Soft,

So I am missing the point of what works for me? lol
Don't you think it's a big difference between being 6'7" than a six foot tall guy?
I have never seen the longer club less control rule fail. Try hitting a 47 inch driver. I would never choose to sacrifice accuracy in iron play. I am also wary of salesmanship in the club industry-I find I do better by sticking with clubs for a long time and really having confidence in what they do for me instead of chasing the latest and greatest shiny new things to come down the pipe.
IMO its the Indian not the arrow.

depends on their respective arm length, don't you think?

I agree with sticking with clubs that inspire confidence for a while to build up the trust in them.

I do not agree that it's the Indian not the arrow. If you have a piece of junk arrow that can't get the job done, the wise Indian will find a better arrow that works, not blame himself.

Golfers, I know there is no one else to blame but ourselves, but there are other things out there to blame, the lie, the wind, the bad bounce, rub of the green, equipment issues, if you don't externalize some blame here and there when you can you'll go crazy and won't get much better.

P.S. Shouldn't the club be the bow and not the arrow in this analogy....

 

[softconsult]

Grahler, my point is that there is something to this "Get fitted thing." If anything, these new Ping irons are more accurate than my 3/4 inch shorter Titleist's from last season. Driver? 44.5" Titleist 910 D3 fits me nicely and is 1/2 shorter than Standard, because I do think it fits me better.

 

[mjstrong]

It's been stated 1000 times, but the standard driver length on Tour is shorter than any manufacturer's standards. I think "under length" drivers should be WAY more common than they are.

I'm 5'11" tall (average height?) and "can play a lick", and I find a 45.5" driver too long to control effectively. I can swing harder with a shorter club and get more distance and accuracy.

As Jim already mentioned, the only reason stock drivers are as long as they are in order to increase the distance on that 1/10 shot that the average golfer will see when he tries it.

 

[grahler]

Soft,

What works for someone is what works for someone period. I have never seen a guy more accurate with longer clubs-but I am not a clubfitter so small sample size.
I totally agree about the ridiculous length of new stock drivers and the same goes for fairway woods.
Getting 'fitted' is a can of worms. It all depends...No matter what better mechanics and golfer skill will always do well-there really are no magic bullets but there are magic golfers.