Clubpaths, and Hogan vs. Tiger 2000

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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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birly-shirly said:
Not arguing here that the PG swings don't look different to those from the 50s, but are you saying then that Power Golf was written in '47/'48 and illustrated with photos or swings that were "pre-secret" and therefore maybe 2 years old?
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Well, a lot can be explained here if someone knows the year this footage is from:

Power Golf - YouTube

It is the one that surely could be used to picture PG book.

footwedge said:
Quote: Dariusz "What is the characteristic of the City Park course and why have you mentioned this particular one ? Would you say the same about the layout of e.g. Oakmont in 1953 ? Just curious."


Dariusz, I think the point was more about the equipment than the course. Let a tour player practice with the older equipment for awhile and it becomes a moot point, why? because these guys are good.:)
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Well, these guys were good before as well. They were even better in some particular aspects despite technological progress and the courses were less pampered, especially during US Open. Oakmont in 1953 was particularily long course, if I remember correctly, therefore, it promoted true ballstriking quality. I doubt Jason Day or whomever of today could be close to the winners' score there. That's my opinion.

Cheers
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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ej20 said:
Dariusz,if you could prove anything you claim you would do it in a heartbeat just to rub it in my face but you can't or won't and we know the reason why.You are too deep into the "biokinetics" of Hogan to ever take a backward step.Brian can move on when he discovers new things by keeping an open mind.Too bad you can't.

I am the biggest fan of Hogan and he just could be the most controlled striker of the ball ever.But you are not going to convince me or anyone with some intelligence that if you copy Hogans biomechanics,you will have automation in your swing.You have not provided one shred of evidence that this is the case so why should anyone believe you.

Oh and I am not ridiculing you.Perhaps you are just too sensitive or lack a sense of humour.I have on numerous occasions agreed on things you have said.I give credit where credit is due according to my opinion.
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Moment, moment. I thought you wanted me to prove that Hogan was the best ballstriker that ever lived and not give proofs for my theories that are not based on Hogan but on theory of limitations. Hogan (post-secret) is simply and not coincidentally the best example illustrating perfect biokinetics aimed at repeatability and consistency (setup-dependent motion). Just a word to explain the situation from my perspective.

Cheers

P.S. I got sense of humour but English language is not my native one.
 
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spktho

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I'm confused--too easily sometimes. I thought this thread was comparing Hogan's swing to the year 2000 Wood's swing in relation to who had a better clubpath and why that is so.

So what is this thread really about?
 
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footwedge

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Dariusz J. said:
Well, a lot can be explained here if someone knows the year this footage is from:

Power Golf - YouTube

It is the one that surely could be used to picture PG book.



Well, these guys were good before as well. They were even better in some particular aspects despite technological progress and the courses were less pampered, especially during US Open. Oakmont in 1953 was particularily long course, if I remember correctly, therefore, it promoted true ballstriking quality. I doubt Jason Day or whomever of today could be close to the winners' score there. That's my opinion.

Cheers
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That's your opinion that Jason Day or whoever couldn't be close to the winner's score at Oakmont, my opinion is the players today are just as good as players from the past and may be in some cases even better, there is no reason to believe that Hogan will never be equaled or surpassed as a ballstriker or player, in every sport this has happened through the history of sports.

I'm sure in his day Old Tom Morris was considered a golfing god, I think today he would struggle against the top players and the equipment and courses they played then were just a wee bit different than in Hogan's time. Do you think Old Tom could give Hogan a run for his money?
 
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footwedge

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spktho said:
I'm confused--too easily sometimes. I thought this thread was comparing Hogan's swing to the year 2000 Wood's swing in relation to who had a better clubpath and why that is so.

So what is this thread really about?
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It's about nothing yet everything...lol.
 
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conkanen

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footwedge said:
Why couldn't he? I think he already has. Youtube has lots of Tigers amazing shots and we all have seen them on the telly. Bubba works the ball a lot it's his style. Other players don't but it doesn't mean they can't.
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Well he can't. That's my point. Tiger admits that Bubba has shots that even he can't hit. Does that make him the best ball striker ever (i.e. better than Tiger)???
 
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footwedge

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conkanen said:
Well he can't. That's my point. Tiger admits that Bubba has shots that even he can't hit. Does that make him the best ball striker ever (i.e. better than Tiger)???
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I don't believe it. Bubba is Tigers buddy so he's just been nice, remember Tiger is trying to change. What shot can Bubba hit that Tiger can't? Maybe lefthanded shots or for distance. Lately there's shot's that Tiger has hit that Bubba might not want to try...lol.
 
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conkanen

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footwedge said:
I don't believe it. Bubba is Tigers buddy so he's just been nice, remember Tiger is trying to change. What shot can Bubba hit that Tiger can't? Maybe lefthanded shots or for distance. Lately there's shot's that Tiger has hit that Bubba might not want to try...lol.
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Ever since he first appeared on the professional tours, the slim but loose-limbed Watson who regularly drives the ball over 310 yards has stunned fellow players with remarkable shots.

Tiger Woods vividly remembers watching him cut a one-iron over trees and on to the green from a distance of around 320 yards at the Dunlop Phoenix tournament in Japan.

"We see him two groups ahead of us and we have a big logjam and he pulled out iron," 14-times major winner Woods, himself a prodigious hitter, recalled. "We heard he's long, but come on.

"All of a sudden you hear this huge roar. He pumped it on the green. I don't have that shot. If I hit a good three-wood, I'll probably fly it in the front bunker or bounce it in the front bunker. Yeah, he's long."
 
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footwedge

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conkanen said:
Ever since he first appeared on the professional tours, the slim but loose-limbed Watson who regularly drives the ball over 310 yards has stunned fellow players with remarkable shots.

Tiger Woods vividly remembers watching him cut a one-iron over trees and on to the green from a distance of around 320 yards at the Dunlop Phoenix tournament in Japan.

"We see him two groups ahead of us and we have a big logjam and he pulled out iron," 14-times major winner Woods, himself a prodigious hitter, recalled. "We heard he's long, but come on.

"All of a sudden you hear this huge roar. He pumped it on the green. I don't have that shot. If I hit a good three-wood, I'll probably fly it in the front bunker or bounce it in the front bunker. Yeah, he's long."
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Distance, like I said.
 
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ej20

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Remarkably,Bubbas clubhead speed is about the same as Tiger in his prime or even a bit slower.Tiger has never maximised his distance potential due to less than optimal spin.

Bubba has to go Daly long in the backswing to get his speed.Tiger doesn't.
 
johnnymarlboro

johnnymarlboro

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ej20 said:
Remarkably,Bubbas clubhead speed is about the same as Tiger in his prime or even a bit slower.Tiger has never maximised his distance potential due to less than optimal spin.

Bubba has to go Daly long in the backswing to get his speed.Tiger doesn't.
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What difference does that make?
 
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ej20

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johnnymarlboro said:
What difference does that make?
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Well take it back Daly long and tell me how you go.

It's generally accepted in golf instruction that the longer your backswing,the more distance potential you will have but at the expense of being more erratic.

Why do you think someone like Moe Norman who played with a barely half swing could hit it so consistently but short?

Yeah,Bubba could hit shots nobody could hit but can he do it consistently and how poor are his poor shots?
 
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ej20

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footwedge said:
It means there's more potential distance for Tiger if he can get his spin under control. Maybe then he would be longer than BUBBA and hit that 1 iron shot 320.:D
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Well I'm afraid not any more.He is past his physical prime and what with a bad knee he will never swing in the high 120's again but I could be wrong.
 
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footwedge

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ej20 said:
Well take it back Daly long and tell me how you go.

It's generally accepted in golf instruction that the longer your backswing,the more distance potential you will have but at the expense of being more erratic.

Why do you think someone like Moe Norman who played with a barely half swing could hit it so consistently but short?

Yeah,Bubba could hit shots nobody could hit but can he do it consistently and how poor are his poor shots?
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Not quite, there's people that can hit shots Bubba can't. Jamie S., Jason Z. etc. distance wise.
 
Jwat

Jwat

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conkanen said:
Ever since he first appeared on the professional tours, the slim but loose-limbed Watson who regularly drives the ball over 310 yards has stunned fellow players with remarkable shots.

Tiger Woods vividly remembers watching him cut a one-iron over trees and on to the green from a distance of around 320 yards at the Dunlop Phoenix tournament in Japan.

"We see him two groups ahead of us and we have a big logjam and he pulled out iron," 14-times major winner Woods, himself a prodigious hitter, recalled. "We heard he's long, but come on.

"All of a sudden you hear this huge roar. He pumped it on the green. I don't have that shot. If I hit a good three-wood, I'll probably fly it in the front bunker or bounce it in the front bunker. Yeah, he's long."
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So your arguing he's longer, big deal. Like everyone has been saying, unless you are a die hard Hogan is the best ballstriker fan, this thread is meaningless. When it comes down to the history books, winning golf tournaments is what it is all about. So B. Watson + Hogan does not = Tiger.

Yes Hogan was the most consistant ballstriker in his time and maybe could compare today. But that means nothing for the evolution of golf through technology and player talent. For someone to say that golfers havent evolved into faster, stronger, and smarter athletes compared to the 1950's is just plain ignorant.
 
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ej20

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footwedge said:
Not quite, there's people that can hit shots Bubba can't. Jamie S., Jason Z. etc. distance wise.
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Yeah,I saw Bubba compete with Sadlowski in a long drive comp and after Bubba bombed one 360,Jamie nuked his 400 with a regular 45" driver.Sick.
 
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