Controlling the amount of tumble

[trainerdug]

So in videos like Brians GOLF.com video on Rory and in a few others I've seen, he talks about using the right shoulder/forearm to rotate the club properly so that it's not stuck behind you. My question is can anyone suggest ways to fine tune the amount of doing so? I tend to either get totally stuck behind me, or over tumble and hit the ball dead left. Does anyone else have this problem?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Ive never seen anybody with both extremes. If you get the "dead stuck behind you" the over tumble you feel is prob just a catch up flip or roll. Prob need to do it earlier.

 

[Richard Franklin]

Right arm only golf swings.

If you drag too long and get underplane, you'll know it. In order to pure it, you'll need to tumble just the right amount.

 

[spktho]

So in videos like Brians GOLF.com video on Rory and in a few others I've seen, he talks about using the right shoulder/forearm to rotate the club properly so that it's not stuck behind you. My question is can anyone suggest ways to fine tune the amount of doing so? I tend to either get totally stuck behind me, or over tumble and hit the ball dead left. Does anyone else have this problem?

I have had the same problem, but am getting a handle on it. I have found that slowing the hands in the release (like Kevin says flipping) will result in the lefts for me. I have to feel like the hands keep accelerating left through impact with the release. I also have to feel low or inside hands into impact or else I tend to stand the handle up which also causes the lefts for me.

 

[trainerdug]

Need to begin the tumble earlier? And I don't mean I am normally an extreme under or extreme over...this occurs when I practice. My standard is to be severely underplane but I can feel it, so the next swing I'll deliberately try to do the opposite and tumble more, which is when I hit my buddy standing to the left of me.

 

[SteveT]

Where in the backswing and downswing is the "tumble" consciously controlled.... and where is it freewheeling and NOT subject to manipulation? Just asking ....

 

[Kevin Shields]

Need to begin the tumble earlier? And I don't mean I am normally an extreme under or extreme over...this occurs when I practice. My standard is to be severely underplane but I can feel it, so the next swing I'll deliberately try to do the opposite and tumble more, which is when I hit my buddy standing to the left of me.

Like I said, the second try is prob too late and you stall out and flash the thing closed. You don't tumble more, just earlier.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Where in the backswing and downswing is the "tumble" consciously controlled.... and where is it freewheeling and NOT subject to manipulation? Just asking ....

For most, right after the reverse is felt is where I would suggest it be put in action

 

[SteveT]

For most, right after the reverse is felt is where I would suggest it be put in action

Are you saying that "tumble" is consciously manipulated at the start of the downswing? How far into the downswing can you control it?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Are you saying that "tumble" is consciously manipulated at the start of the downswing? How far into the downswing can you control it?

Has to be, I can never just let it fly. When the shaft is parallel to the ground is about when I would think you can't control it.

 

[SteveT]

Has to be, I can never just let it fly. When the shaft is parallel to the ground is about when I would think you can't control it.

I'm not convinced. If you examine the kinematic diagram of the swing, you will see the hands and arms accelerating from the top to about shaft horizontal... and then the hands and arms start to decelerate all in accordance with the kinetic sequencing.

Are you saying you attempt to control the "tumble" during the initial acceleration phase and then do nothing in the deceleration phase going into impact?

Didn't Hogan stress the need for left hand "supination" in final release, which I read as "tumble"? This "tumble" terminology has me confused because it's so poorly defined scientifically.

 

[Kevin Shields]

All I'm saying is there's a time to "tip", or push the clubhead over toward the ball outward. And it's earlier than people may think. When the hands go up and in at impact I'm sure that has an effect for speed and late tumble. But like I said, I'm not a scientist.

I just make sure I have a certain force on the club to offset the opposite early in the downswing and then let it freewheel.

 

[trainerdug]

Thanks for the answers Kevin - I get what you're saying I can't do it correctly though, simple concept - hard to put into practice for me!

 

[Matt Bryda]

I have had the same problem, but am getting a handle on it. I have found that slowing the hands in the release (like Kevin says flipping) will result in the lefts for me. I have to feel like the hands keep accelerating left through impact with the release. I also have to feel low or inside hands into impact or else I tend to stand the handle up which also causes the lefts for me.

Trainerdug,

There are some good points here made by spktho that could apply to your situation.
I think an important point to consider is where and how you get to the top of your backswing.
You may not be deep enough in the backswing.
But of course..
This is without seeing your most current swing.

 

[trainerdug]

Thanks Matt. I really like his idea of keeping the hands accelerating rather than flipping. This is worth keeping at, being underplane is a bad feeling

And here's a quick swing vid from last summer to give you a little more info. Sorry for no slow-mo

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Truth be told.

When I originally started working on my swing I thought you only had enough time to control the backswing. I thought the downswing movement was just a reaction to the backswing. BUT, over years of working on my swing, I have come to realize that there is some control to be had during the downswing.

There is enough time- to TIME a tumble, to TIME a jump or a move to go normal.

BUT, you have to get to that place in skill acquisition to have that level of awareness.

We hear about pro athletes saying the game "slows down" after a certain amount of exposure. Well, I believe the same is true during a golf swing. If you put the effort in, the swing will " slow down" and you can have control in areas you thought uncontrollable.

Just my thoughts on why some believe timing a tumble is impossible. It takes PRACTICE!

 

[lia41985]

Lindsey,
Thanks for your post. All the more reason to not tug and to work on the dynamic balance, tempo, and rhythm components art discusses.

 

[mgranato]

Truth be told.

When I originally started working on my swing I thought you only had enough time to control the backswing. I thought the downswing movement was just a reaction to the backswing. BUT, over years of working on my swing, I have come to realize that there is some control to be had during the downswing.

There is enough time- to TIME a tumble, to TIME a jump or a move to go normal.

BUT, you have to get to that place in skill acquisition to have that level of awareness.

We hear about pro athletes saying the game "slows down" after a certain amount to exposure. Well, I believe the same is true during a golf swing. If you put the effort in, the swing will " slow down" and you can have control in areas you thought uncontrollable.

Just my thoughts on why some believe timing a tumble is impossible. It takes PRACTICE!

I like this, Lindsey.

Maybe it's playing all those years with a shot clock looming in the background, but I've always had a sense of "beat the buzzer" as the club approached the top. For the longest time, the only thoughts I ever seemed to benefit from was the move from setup to the top, after that, things/thoughts were a blur.

I got introduced to fire arms training last year, and oddly enough, it has really had a big impact on slowing down fast sequences. The whole "fast is sloppy, slow is fast, and too slow can kill you" has started to cross over into golf. And as you mentioned, the key has been learning how to be aware.

It's a looong ways from being there, but I'm starting to get it. I like using the term "calming up".

 

[trainerdug]

good post Lindsey - how long did it take you to get consistent awareness and control along with how much time spent practicing? Maybe just as important - how did you maintain focus on learning the right way of doing things rather than going in circles.

 

[Matt 4-L]

Trainerdug...from the vid you posted your club looks pretty steep coming into impact, I don't know if its tumble that you really need.