Cure this golfer.
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cmartingolf
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Wait 'till they were at their wits end and asked for help.
There are a lot of demons to fix with that kind of golfer and a lot of proving the Earth isn't flat in 1491.
There are a lot of demons to fix with that kind of golfer and a lot of proving the Earth isn't flat in 1491.
Was at the range last night and the guy two bays away from me had exactly the same issue. He was watching me hit the driver with a little fade on one shot and some draw on others. (I was trying to figure out how to play both shots on will) and came up to me.
I told him that I am not in a position to help him out properly but he could think of swinging more upright and there is 'an up element to the backswing' (if I quoted BM correctly). He tried out a few dry swings and then hit the driver with a big slice. Told him to temper out his swing between what he just did and what he did previously. The next ball went off straight with just a little fade at the end. However near the end of his practice round he was struggling again with his original problem.
I guess the moral of the story is since I can't do enough to save my own game, I might as well keep my big mouth shut.
I told him that I am not in a position to help him out properly but he could think of swinging more upright and there is 'an up element to the backswing' (if I quoted BM correctly). He tried out a few dry swings and then hit the driver with a big slice. Told him to temper out his swing between what he just did and what he did previously. The next ball went off straight with just a little fade at the end. However near the end of his practice round he was struggling again with his original problem.
I guess the moral of the story is since I can't do enough to save my own game, I might as well keep my big mouth shut.
An overly flat backswing is usually the result of popout.I would work on his takeaway first.
Was at the range last night and the guy two bays away from me had exactly the same issue. He was watching me hit the driver with a little fade on one shot and some draw on others. (I was trying to figure out how to play both shots on will) and came up to me.
I told him that I am not in a position to help him out properly but he could think of swinging more upright and there is 'an up element to the backswing' (if I quoted BM correctly). He tried out a few dry swings and then hit the driver with a big slice. Told him to temper out his swing between what he just did and what he did previously. The next ball went off straight with just a little fade at the end. However near the end of his practice round he was struggling again with his original problem.
I guess the moral of the story is since I can't do enough to save my own game, I might as well keep my big mouth shut.
Anyone who thinks they can fix a fairly serious swing flaw permanently in one lesson,I think you should run not walk away.It takes time.
You don't go to a piano teacher and expect to play a concert piece in 1 lesson.
ggsjpc
New
I've used this anaogy a hundred times and it always gets the point across. Excellent quote.
dsmith2296
New
I would suggest a little more cow bell.
rogerdodger
New
I have fought it for thirty years of golf, if you figure out a shortcut let me know.
vjsinger
New
You don't think the student can get all of the right information in that one lesson and fix it with the information he recieved in just that lesson?
cmartingolf
New
Here are some thoughts fwiw:
I like to use props on the ground for swing path awareness.
1. target line - get a club on the ground
2. towel plane board - ala Bman - between the feet and the ball, to the right of the ball.
3. I like to put a prop ahead of the ball inside the target line. I use a range ball bag so nobody gets hurt. I like to see the ball go down the target line while the club head goes left of the bag.
There will still be face issues, but at least the path will be closer to decent golf and they will be able to hit a wood off a tight lie.
I like to use props on the ground for swing path awareness.
1. target line - get a club on the ground
2. towel plane board - ala Bman - between the feet and the ball, to the right of the ball.
3. I like to put a prop ahead of the ball inside the target line. I use a range ball bag so nobody gets hurt. I like to see the ball go down the target line while the club head goes left of the bag.
There will still be face issues, but at least the path will be closer to decent golf and they will be able to hit a wood off a tight lie.
Errmmm... he was replying to my input. And for sure, I do not have enough of golf mechanics and knowledge to cure any gold malady. If you have read the earlier threads, I started out trying to be helpful but then I might have hurt the other guy's golf game for life.
After all this is a forum, where all thoughts worthy or not should be take into consideration. Or did I 'understooded' wrongly?
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Richie3Jack
New
I would check over some basic things first, mainly clubface angle throughout the swing and then if that's closed, then check to see what the grip looks like.
Flat backswings don't bother me in the least bit, it's just how they go about getting a flat backswing. If they just yank it way inside to get it flat, then work on the takeaway a bit. If the takeaway ain't the problem, then I would tinker with some things like rear elbow position or shoulder turn, tinker until something clicks. If they have a perfectly fine flat backswing, then I would go and look at the downswing and attack that area. Probably some NHA 2.0 stuff and 'swinging left' stuff.
If that doesn't work, then I would probably go back to working on the backswing while incorporating some new stuff from the downswing.
3JACK
Flat backswings don't bother me in the least bit, it's just how they go about getting a flat backswing. If they just yank it way inside to get it flat, then work on the takeaway a bit. If the takeaway ain't the problem, then I would tinker with some things like rear elbow position or shoulder turn, tinker until something clicks. If they have a perfectly fine flat backswing, then I would go and look at the downswing and attack that area. Probably some NHA 2.0 stuff and 'swinging left' stuff.
If that doesn't work, then I would probably go back to working on the backswing while incorporating some new stuff from the downswing.
3JACK
Richie3Jack
New
I know that wasn't pertaining to me, but often times this is not the case. Information overload usually kicks in. Often times what will happen is that the golfer may get 1 or 2 things down and then needs to work on the other things afterward. But once they get those first two things down and decide to work on the other things, they don't get it right because it's been awhile since they had that lesson and they don't have the instructor showing them the proper way to execute those pieces of instruction.
Most serious flaws are serious because they have been ingrained for years and years. To compound the issue, often times they became a serious flaws because the golfer was instructed as this being 'the way.'
For instance, I was taught by one teacher a certain takeaway method that really closed the clubface on the entire backswing. To counter that closed clubface, one of the things I would do is move my head backwards away from the target as a way to subconsciously square the face at impact. Now I have a different takeaway method with a different teacher and a square clubface, but that head keeps moving backwards (some days it doesn't and I hit the ball extremely well). Just something that has been ingrained and started through some poor instruction. I have been taught many different ways to help get rid of that head moving backwards, but there's no way I'm going to get rid of it with just one lesson.
3JACK
vjsinger
New
Errmmm... he was replying to my input. And for sure, I do not have enough of golf mechanics and knowledge to cure any gold malady. If you have read the earlier threads, I started out trying to be helpful but then I might have hurt the other guy's golf game for life.
After all this is a forum, where all thoughts worthy or not should be take into consideration. Or did I 'understooded' wrongly?
It was just a question "dude". I did read the whole thread and I guess I should have directed it at everyone, not just ej. So, try and understand the question. Pretty simple one actually, what I should do is start a new thread and ask it there. I'll do that then you can chime in.
I am talking about serious swing flaws of an average hack.To get this hack to swing it correctly,does any instructor seriously thinks he can do it in 1 lesson?
When I say correctly,I mean a swing that produces better results,are permanent and looks at least half orthodox.
If they hit it great and consistent with a flat backswing,of course why would you touch it?
Generally speaking though,flat backswings are accompanied by too much left forearm rotation.Then you need to rotate it back.If you have good rotational skills,then it might work but why make it harder?
Swinging on a good plane works for most people.Swinging overly flat works only for a few. Which one would you teach?
birdie_man
New
Make sure they are bent over enough from the hips...then probably Nha or anything with a steeper shoulder turn.
And...like Brian says, if you can fade a driver off a tight lie...
(you now can fade basically anything)
And...like Brian says, if you can fade a driver off a tight lie...
(you now can fade basically anything)
Richie3Jack
New
You can be very flat and be on a 'good plane.' You can be very upright and be on a 'good plane.' I suggest flatter swings for most amateurs because generally it's more difficult to come over the top with a flatter swing. In a very general sense, I believe that the rear elbow gets nearby the rear rib cage on the downswing. Many amateurs struggle to get that rear elbow in a good position on the downswing. And I believe it's a case of getting that rear elbow too far away from the rib cage on the backswing and they simply cannot return it near the rib cage on the downswing. Couples and Nicklause had that rear elbow far away from the rib cage on the backswing but they could return it properly on the downswing time and time again. I see a lot of amateurs who cannot do that (myself included). So I think it sort of 'uncomplicates' the issue if you can just keep that right elbow near the rib cage on the backswing.
Of course, I wouldn't force feed that down any golfer's throat. For example, a guy that plays in my Saturday group came to me for some help. He was an 8 handicapper and he has a very upright backswing. He was actually hitting everything thin, but we never worked on his backswing plane one bit, mainly because that wasn't the problem.
I work on whatever I think can work for that golfer. If swinging overly flat is what's needed, hopefully I can recognize that and we can work on that. There's one friend that I work with where we found that he needs to swing overly upright (he had an injury that helped cause this), but his downswing path is very good with this new, Furyk-ish upright backswing and he's murdering the ball.
If somebody is underplane on the downswing, I don't automatically assume it's the flat backswing causing the problem.
3JACK
vjsinger
New
I'd suspect the posture to be a problem as well Birdie. There is a reason the tour pros work on posture more than anything else in their swings. Another way of thinking about the bend of the hips is to feel like the tush goes behind you more. You'll feel really solid on your feet doing this. I feel more weight on my heels, because when I first started playing I didn't understand how important it is to get the angle between the thighs and the lower back correct. Not having enough angle in this area is another way to lose your grip at any point in the swing(poor pivot),get steep, hook it, and a myriad of other horrible things... at least in my experience.
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