Definition of OTT vs. Swinging Left

[Richie3Jack]

We were talking about this briefly on Brian's last webcam chat, but we didn't really get around to it.

I also think this is where most people get confused and skeptical about 'swinging left', they think it's promoting an OTT move.

So, I was thinking about a way to come up with a definition of OTT that will differentiate it from a golfer who properly swings the club left to hit it dead straight OR to play a controlled baby fade.




3JACK

 

[conkanen]

Great topic imo. I wonder if I am overdoing the carry move as a serial under planer and inside outer. Am I OTT? Is feel real? Probably not. But it sure feels more different than anything I have ever done with my swing and that's saying something lol. I can't wait till I can't start playing again to see where it goes.

 

[Kevin Shields]

We were talking about this briefly on Brian's last webcam chat, but we didn't really get around to it.

I also think this is where most people get confused and skeptical about 'swinging left', they think it's promoting an OTT move.

So, I was thinking about a way to come up with a definition of OTT that will differentiate it from a golfer who properly swings the club left to hit it dead straight OR to play a controlled baby fade.




3JACK

I think your defintion would be a good start. Its an interesting topic. When is it actually by definition OTT?

 

[lookingtolearn]

From what I can tell, there are three main definitions (off the top of my head) that most people mean when they say OTT.

1. At the beginning of the downswing, the hands go sort of "up and out," like their trying to go "over the top" of something just outside of them.
2. A downswing path that comes "over" the backswing path.
3. Swinging too far left for the shot being played.

I really wish the term would just disappear because I think it just adds confusion.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I like my definition...a path that is too left that doesn't allow you to hit a straight shot.

Because the reality is, if you are swinging left enough to counteract some kind of down in the iron shot you are technically swinging outside/in to some extent; it's the down that moves the "True path" neutral.

 

[lookingtolearn]

I like my definition...a path that is too left that doesn't allow you to hit a straight shot.

Because the reality is, if you are swinging left enough to counteract some kind of down in the iron shot you are technically swinging outside/in to some extent; it's the down that moves the "True path" neutral.

Right, and that's the definition that makes the most sense to me. But then the term really doesn't make any sense (over the top of what?).

 

[Kevin Shields]

All I know is that id have to think about it cuz I dont really know! Thats why I never use that term. Over the top of what?

 

[Richie3Jack]

I like my definition...a path that is too left that doesn't allow you to hit a straight shot.

Because the reality is, if you are swinging left enough to counteract some kind of down in the iron shot you are technically swinging outside/in to some extent; it's the down that moves the "True path" neutral.

I liked your definition as well. However, that's why I mentioned a controlled fade. If I'm a little further left than needed and hitting a nice fade that goes toward the target isn't what I would call over the top. I think the definition expands further than that.




3JACK

 

[lookingtolearn]

I liked your definition as well. However, that's why I mentioned a controlled fade. If I'm a little further left than needed and hitting a nice fade that goes toward the target isn't what I would call over the top. I think the definition expands further than that.




3JACK

I guess that's why I added a bit to my #3 -- Swinging too far left for the shot you are trying to play. This way it covers baby fades too.

 

[jonnygrouville]

Like it.

A lot of good players seem under the plane on the way back, look like they have a kind of 'over' move to start into the downswing, but definitely get back on the D-plane they are after by impact. I'd always thought the classic Tom Watson swing looks a bit this way. More recently, Ross Fisher.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpeX8uutKdQ&feature=related[/media]

Over The... erm... Slightly Under One, But Still Flush It?

Jim's definition hits on a key point, the difference between an overplane (?) type of swing and results.

 

[vjsinger]

How long has the term Over the Top been around? If it originated in the 2D era of "instructors" drawing lines on a computer screen, maybe you have your answer?

 

[vjsinger]

Maybe it started with Hogan's pane of glass theory also? I dunno.

 

[Matt 4-L]

From what I understand is you need your plane you are on to be left of target for a straight shot....If you aim your feet at the target line and come over the top of the plane at the top hence ott then thats an ott swing that produces a straight shot at the target or you could aim left of the target and swing on the same plane as address and hit a straight shot that is also called a push, am I missing something?

 

[Matt 4-L]

I don't think a slight ott is a bad thing, now an ott by a 30 handicapper is a different thing.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I don't think a slight ott is a bad thing, now an ott by a 30 handicapper is a different thing.

I think a true 'OTT' is bad regardless if it's slight or not. Maybe some guys can get away with it like Craig Stadler, but most golfers cannot IMO. I think it would be really great to get the definitions down, but I think the Trackman guys would give better insight because they can tell what the numbers are like between an OTT and a proper swing left golfer.




3JACK

 

[Matt 4-L]

I think a true 'OTT' is bad regardless if it's slight or not. Maybe some guys can get away with it like Craig Stadler, but most golfers cannot IMO. I think it would be really great to get the definitions down, but I think the Trackman guys would give better insight because they can tell what the numbers are like between an OTT and a proper swing left golfer.




3JACK

I think OTT already has a universal definition, simply swinging outside the original plane at the top, thats it. I think the definition that needs more clairfiy is swinging left. Unless you are looking to redefine OTT, I guess I am not sure what you are trying to define.

 

[dolanski]

Doesn't swinging left refer to the direction of the club after lowpoint? In Brian's post a couple months ago he posted a video where he swung left, but the path was still .9 degrees inside out, and he alluded to where he swung after low point. Wouldn't an OTT move, then, require a path that is a certain amount of degrees outside in? Thus, an OTT move is already going left before impact, whereas "swinging left" goes left, and quickly, just after lowpoint. Just a guess, so I'm curious what others think. Although we may not be able to define OTT, I definitely am way too familiar with it.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think a true 'OTT' is bad regardless if it's slight or not. Maybe some guys can get away with it like Craig Stadler, but most golfers cannot IMO. I think it would be really great to get the definitions down, but I think the Trackman guys would give better insight because they can tell what the numbers are like between an OTT and a proper swing left golfer.




3JACK

From a Trackman point of view maybe its a swing that is so far left it requires too much down to zero the path out.

 

[braveheart]

I always thought the term had more to do with the right shoulder on the downswing. If the right shoulder goes out toward the target line instead of down toward it then you are in essence "over the top." Never thought of it as anything after contact.

 

[ej20]

OTT can be a lot of things.For example,I have seen players come OTT with their right shoulder but loop the hands inside to compensate...sometimes overcompensate and come into the ball underplane.

Trackman won't be able to pickup the roundhousing right shoulder.