Definition of OTT vs. Swinging Left

[dannyc]

I think a true 'OTT' is bad regardless if it's slight or not. Maybe some guys can get away with it like Craig Stadler, but most golfers cannot IMO. I think it would be really great to get the definitions down, but I think the Trackman guys would give better insight because they can tell what the numbers are like between an OTT and a proper swing left golfer.




3JACK

wait!!!
so you are saying that "ott" is swinging "above" the backswing plane, and therefore craig stadler is "ott?"
i thought the whole point was zero face, zero path? who cares if it looks "ott?"
stadler would put up some good numbers on trackman - better than most who don't look "ott."

 

[greenfree]

Over the top= left of your intended initial ball flight direction, as i understand it, but it is usually talked about as over the top of some 2d line drawn on a picture or computer screen.

 

[Matt 4-L]

There is nothing wrong with an OTT swing. Where OTT gets its bad wrap is the high handicapper who swings way above plane swiping across the ball and he comes down really steep and hits a big bannana ball. Richie may disagree and I really don't want to argue it but just know that a slight over the top move of a conventional backswing is perfectly fine and there are lots of good players hitting that shot....Now that we have trackman I guess you could say that the path may not truly be over the top because of what we know about the d plane but even if it is slightly over and you play a baby fade with it, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Over the top= left of your intended initial ball flight direction, as i understand it, but it is usually talked about as over the top of some 2d line drawn on a picture or computer screen.

Agee about the line but you can start it left of your intended line swinging right as well.

 

[greenfree]

Agee about the line but you can start it left of your intended line swinging right as well.

Would that be over top of the intended line/ shot regardless of where your swing path is?

 

[westy]

I originally asked BManz the question in the web session he did a couple of days ago.
Why i asked him about it was because i was trying to pick his coconut on the down the line view of a golf swing.
Theoretically i guess historically the flat earth 2D humans have assumed the swing plane or pane of glass or whatever always points at the target.
But it dosent. The shafts swinging plane moves around based on how much down or up you use. Down = left(irons), up = right(driver and putter)....
So...any sweetspot (thanks Shields) that gets above this always straight plane on the downswing was from this perspective OTT, but in reality it might have been perfect.
See the massive flaw?
My distilled definition of OTT is now a sweetspot travelling further left than intended.
The opposite is UTP. Under the plane.
Of course not owning a trackman i dont actually know where that plane is for sure, and until i get one, my eyeballs will have to do.
Point being.... people use it to square the face.
But if you know where you want that plane to point, then you can zero out the loopiness.
I think a lot of good players have wasted a lot of time trying to swing the club straight at the target, swinging an 8 iron back on a plane parallel to the target line then having to reorient the downswing to accommodate the down.

 

[dbl]

I always thought the term had more to do with the right shoulder on the downswing. If the right shoulder goes out toward the target line instead of down toward it then you are in essence "over the top." Never thought of it as anything after contact.

I'm with you, and Matt F in post 16.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I liked your definition as well. However, that's why I mentioned a controlled fade. If I'm a little further left than needed and hitting a nice fade that goes toward the target isn't what I would call over the top. I think the definition expands further than that.




3JACK

No, i don't think so. It's a way to hit a fade and you are swinging too far left thus creating it. It's like running a redlight, if you did it you did it, doesn't matter how much of the car was in the intersection in the red light.

I don't think it's a bad thing anyway; i mean the reality is anyway playing a big ole pull fade off the driver on tour is swinging too outside/in so it doesn't matter.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Maybe OTT came from the shaft being Over the Top of the Right Shoulder

James

 

[softconsult]

In my experience, For years (decades actually) we used the term OTT to describe a downswing initated by the upper body with right shoulder moving out toward the target line causing an extreme outside - in path and the compensating open held off clubface. In the case of less skilled players it meant el sliceo!

 

[conkanen]

In my experience, For years (decades actually) we used the term OTT to describe a downswing initated by the upper body with right shoulder moving out toward the target line causing an extreme outside - in path and the compensating open held off clubface. In the case of less skilled players it meant el sliceo!

This makes to me. The ol "No Release/Cut Across"!

 

[jonnygrouville]

There must be some element of intention. From my experience, a lot of OTTers (not the semi-aquatic mammals) out on the course aim twenty yards right anyway, and get really frustrated when they hit perfectly straight shots or shots that start straight down the fairway and end up where they have aimed them.

 

[softconsult]

"Get really frustrated"?

I don't see too many people get frustrated over a straight down the fairway shot. In my experience, it's just the degree of compensations that a given player has developed. The right aimers come over the top in order to hit it at the target. Haven't ever seen many right aimers, talking over 10 handicap, aim right, swing right and draw the ball back. Of course, the most common is aim left and slice or cut it back into the target.

 

[jonnygrouville]

The frustration is when they hit it perfectly where they aim it. Twenty yards right into the boondocks. Then convince themselves they have a block.

 

[Benjaaz]

OTT is a shoulder thing

I always thought OTT was swinging over the optimum plane to the ball so you have to come in towards the body to hit the ball. This usually happens when your right shoulder pushes out towards the ball and you have no choice but to come across the ball. The resulting shot is a pull, pull hook or a face open slice.

 

[Brian Manzella]

"Over The Top"

Simply means the downswing starts OVER THE TOP of the backswing plane.

Period.

Give it a rest.

"Swinging Left"

Simply means the club swings left pass impact because of the D-Plane requirements on a full shot off of the turf is for the HSP or Plane Line to be left of the target and the club will SWING LEFT IMMEDIATELY AFTER IMPACT!!!!

 

[Mike O]

D-Plane Boss D-Plane

From a Trackman point of view maybe its a swing that is so far left it requires too much down to zero the path out.

Kevin,
I think you could help me understand the D-Plane better - if you could briefly clarify how down is measured, and/or how more down would offset more left. (I'm thinking more down is measuring the clubhead and that more down would mean less "out").
Thanks,
Mike
P.S. The answer doesn't have to be lengthy, full or detailed - but just something that leads me in the right direction.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Every player, even the worst chop, swings on a flat inclined plane thru impact. That plane has a base, or baseline. If you imagine a roof, it would be the gutter. If you are traveling down the plane, no matter how much left or steep that plane is, it is still going out to the base. So if you contact the ball on the way down it will push your path more right of where it is to the naked eye, or Trackman's horizontal plane line. So even if you swing 10 degrees left (horiz plane) but hit 5 degrees down on the ball, your true path of the club will be in the neighborhood of 7 degrees left depending on how steep the swing is because the downward pushed the path less outside in.

 

[gmbtempe]

Every player, even the worst chop, swings on a flat inclined plane thru impact. That plane has a base, or baseline. If you imagine a roof, it would be the gutter. If you are traveling down the plane, no matter how much left or steep that plane is, it is still going out to the base. So if you contact the ball on the way down it will push your path more right of where it is to the naked eye, or Trackman's horizontal plane line. So even if you swing 10 degrees left (horiz plane) but hit 5 degrees down on the ball, your true path of the club will be in the neighborhood of 7 degrees left depending on how steep the swing is because the downward pushed the path less outside in.

Thats pretty good.

You know what is the hardest thing, swing left, or right for that matter and have the opposite result of what you feel. Your brain has a hard time comprehending it. Swing say 7 degrees left (just using a number), feels like you are sending the ball way off target left and then it comes out straight (if your face is aligned correctly). Its a trip for me.

 

[Kevin Shields]

With a 6 iron, I zero out my path by swinging 1.5 to 3.5 degrees left.