Dr. Cary Middlecoff, AUDIO Swing Analysis by Brian Manzella, PGA, G.S.E.D.

[golfbulldog]

I don't see a reverse C either. GolfBullDog do you still think he might need some modern upgrades for power?

Having seen his swing on those mexican youtube stuff...he looks pretty dynamic!!

I guess what i was saying in that old post was that it is a swing that many tour gurus would want to change....it looks unconventional compared with most tour pros of today.... they would draw lines on the computer screen and stuff...and many tour gurus seem to change players to look more conventional... I'm thinking poor old Michele WIe etc...

But the Doc did OK!! I agree that he has an aggressive right arm spank through release!

 

[jeffy]

OK, then; what caused his back injury? His fondness for martinis?

He was a great player, just a notch below Hogan and Snead, who never wore their backs out. Why did it happen to him?

 

[self-mastery]

Having seen his swing on those mexican youtube stuff...he looks pretty dynamic!!

I guess what i was saying in that old post was that it is a swing that many tour gurus would want to change....it looks unconventional compared with most tour pros of today.... they would draw lines on the computer screen and stuff...and many tour gurus seem to change players to look more conventional... I'm thinking poor old Michele WIe etc...

But the Doc did OK!! I agree that he has an aggressive right arm spank through release!

You are too right Method teachers and fad of the moment bandwagoners have set golf back 40 years. His end of the swing position is the result of what he is doing with his right arm. I have the same look
We have better technology but golfers aren't getting any better... what gives?

Michelle Wie sold her golf game for an IMG contract. She needs to find her way back to Gary Gilchrist, Martin Hall, or even a Reinmuth and forget about all that playing with the men garbage.

 

[birdie_man]

OK, then; what caused his back injury? His fondness for martinis?

He was a great player, just a notch below Hogan and Snead, who never wore their backs out. Why did it happen to him?

Maybe he fell off the swing set when he was little.......??

In all seriousness though.......to me it doesn't look that bad.....or at least I have seen more severe ones.......I could be wrong. I will admit though......it seems that often there probably is something extra there with the knees moving forward etc. And it very well could have contributed. Why not.

 

[birdie_man]

You are too right Method teachers and fad of the moment bandwagoners have set golf back 40 years. His end of the swing position is the result of what he is doing with his right arm. I have the same look
We have better technology but golfers aren't getting any better... what gives?

Michelle Wie sold her golf game for an IMG contract. She needs to find her way back to Gary Gilchrist, Martin Hall, or even a Reinmuth and forget about all that playing with the men garbage.

Was she with Martin Hall at a time?

 

[self-mastery]

Was she with Martin Hall at a time?

She was with Gary Gilchrist... Look at what he has done with the #2 player on the LPGA Tour.

 

[jeffy]

Maybe he fell off the swing set when he was little.......??

In all seriousness though.......to me it doesn't look that bad.....or at least I have seen more severe ones.......I could be wrong. I will admit though......it seems that often there probably is something extra there with the knees moving forward etc. And it very well could have contributed. Why not.

I'm not sure it needs to "look that bad". This is something that happened over many years. But when I watch his driver swings on the youtube clip, my mind says "ouch". The irons look OK.

Look at his record of wins (from Wikipedia):

1945 - 1 tour win, as an amateur
1947 - 1
1948 - 2
1949 - 6, including the US Open
1950 - 3
1951 - 6
1952 - 4
1953 - 3
1954 - 4
1955 - 6, including the Masters
1956 - 3, including the U.S. Open
1958 - 1
1959 - 1
1961 - 1

He was born in 1921, had his best years between age 28 and 35 (33 wins), then dropped off dramatically, done at 40. Hogan had arguably his best year at age 41 (1953), contended at the 1960 US Open until the 71st hole when he was 48, and said he played the best nine holes of his life at the 1967 Masters when he was 55. Snead won the 1952 Masters at age 39 years and 11 months and 19 tournaments thereafter, including another Masters. Boros won the US Open at age 43 and the PGA Championship at 48. What did these three do that Middlecoff didn't, or vice versa? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[self-mastery]

What did these three do that Middlecoff didn't, or vice versa? Inquiring minds want to know!

There bodies held up longer. One thing I promise you that Hogan didn't do is swing like any modern gurus claim he did (not OPS and not RS). Minus the reverse C, Middlecoff has a swing that anyone can learn. There are two living instructors that teach using similar components without the reverse C finish.

A constant theme on golf forums is that you copy X's swing and you magically get that players results... It really doesn't work that way.

People need to drop the Hogan worship and learn more about the man in my avatar. He did it better and longer than anyone in the history of golf.

1) Snead
2) Woods

 

[golfbulldog]

There bodies held up longer. One thing I promise you that Hogan didn't do is swing like any modern gurus claim he did (not OPS and not RS). Minus the reverse C, Middlecoff has a swing that anyone can learn. There are two living instructors that teach using similar components without the reverse C finish.

A constant theme on golf forums is that you copy X's swing and you magically get that players results... It really doesn't work that way.

People need to drop the Hogan worship and learn more about the man in my avatar. He did it better and longer than anyone in the history of golf.

1) Snead
2) Woods

Been saving this for you!

 

[golfbulldog]

and more...

 

[self-mastery]

 

[jeffy]

There bodies held up longer.

Because their swings put less stress on the body components that broke down in Middlecoff's body.

Nothing wrong with a reverse-C swing until you've abused your body with it for a few years. Natalie Gulbis is 24 years old and is already suffering from lower-back problems. I suspect 19 year old Paula Creamer will get there too...

 

[Brian Manzella]

Doc.

Cary Middlecoff was one of the best players of all-time.

He didn't sustain his good play for longest time, but history shows us that the VAST majority don't.

Scoring at the highest levels is 50% Ball-Striking (in play and near the hole, not just booming and pretty), 25% Putting, 15% Around the Greens, and 10% MAGIC.

Often when a player doesn't "fit" with someone's idea of how to make a golf swing, the player has to be criticized in some way.

I say "Baloney"!

 

[self-mastery]

Because their swings put less stress on the body components that broke down in Middlecoff's body.

I'm being unapologetically anal with this reply. His finish is the only faulty element of his swing. The rest is world class.

 

[birdie_man]

WHOA SWEET YOU DA MAN LOOK AT THAT PIVOT.

 

[Dariusz J.]

People need to drop the Hogan worship and learn more about the man in my avatar. He did it better and longer than anyone in the history of golf.

1) Snead
2) Woods

Nope, mate. Most people are wise enough to accept that Hogan was the best golf ballstriker ever. He did not need to be autistic to hit 100% FIR and 100% GIR on many occasions also under biggest tournaments stress.
People should be smart enough to see that it was his swing's principles that gave such results. People should not be blind and start to think if those principles can help also in their games.
BTW, your hero golfer, Snead, happens to be 2nd on my list as regards swing mechanics, mainly because the main principles of his swing are very similar to Hogan's. No odd that they were playing and seeing each other frequently.
Sam was not so good a ballstriker since he did not work enough on keeping the clubface perpendicular to the swing arc long enough (kudos to Jim Hardy for re-discovering this phenomenon after Mr.Hogan took his secret to his grave). With his natural swing, higher IQ and harder work Snead could be equal to Hogan in ballstriking, I believe, or even better because his bones were healthy.

But Woods ? What kind of beautiful swing he has ? I can admire him for his recovery shots, short game, putting, etc. but not for his very swing that depends in the majority on timing, tempo and is ugly as hell. At least for me. People who would like to swing like Woods (while not having his flexibility and ability to time the motion as well as he) obviously don't know much about golf swing pure mechanics, its efficiency and human body anatomy. Luckily for golf population I don't hear often that someone wants to swing like Woods. What I hear is that almost everyone wants to swing like Hogan did. Woods' swing's mechanics sucks horribly comparing to Hogan's, Snead's and even Middlecoff's. To be clear - I speak here only about pure swing mechanics.

You wrote your opinion - I am writting mine.

Cheers

P.S. I am very curious what place would a Hogan-like swing take in Brian's Matrix.

 

[birdie_man]

Jeffy.........

You seem to be pretty adamant about this.....do you know something about why he ACTUALLY won less later on......??

Or are you speculating?

I'm just wondering because while you very well could be onto something (maybe)............and while it's possible that is very well could have contributed...........if you are speculating it pretty much is a guesstimate at best because as is obvious there's tons of things that could cause someone to fall off.

I'm sure you realize this. But maybe you do have more facts?

 

[birdie_man]

Sam was not so good a ballstriker since he did not work enough on keeping the clubface perpendicular to the swing arc long enough. With his natural swing, higher IQ and harder work he could be equal to Hogan in ballstriking, I believe.

Hogan was apparently pretty smart no? BTW I am unsure about this holding the clubface off thing. So you're saying if he delayed his release more and added more FFFFFFATS (Force Across The Shaft) and went to more of a fade???

But Woods ? What kind of beautiful swing he has ? I can admire him for his recovery shots, short game, putting, etc. but not for his very swing that depends in the majority on timing, tempo and is ugly as hell. At least for me. People who would like to swing like Woods (while not having his flexibility and ability to time the motion as well as he) obviously don't know much about golf swing pure mechanics, its efficiency and human body anatomy. Luckily for golf population I don't hear often that someone wants to swing like Woods. What I hear is that almost everyone wants to swing like Hogan did. Woods' swing's mechanics sucks horribly comparing to Hogan's, Snead's and even Middlecoff's.

Yikes.....

You really think Tiger ihas THAT (CAPS FOR EMPHASIS) bad of a golf swing???

I'm no Tiger fan really but that is way off the mark.

 

[jimmyt]

Is there any documented findings that can lend credit to the claim that these particular golf swings is what causes back problems. Or is it possible that some people are just wired that way, genetically.

I think of Mark Prior with the Cubs, anyone who knows baseball would say that he is probably one of the most gifted and mechanically sound pitchers to come around in the last 10 years. Yet always injured. Is it how he throws the ball, not according to experts, so it must be how he is gentically wired.

So I believe some people are just predisposed........

JMO

 

[Bigwill]

Just thinking out loud here, but what if the players considered among the best ball strikers (Hogan, Trevino, Moe, whoever else) were the best in spite of their mechanics, and not because of their mechanics?