Drag the handle

[jimmydean]

gh,
fascinating info. is this concept like a slap shot in hockey? if so would splitting the hands on the grip help in training the hands? keep the info coming. great thread.
jimmy

 

[Kevin Shields]

At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball. The butt of the club looks like it is moving on a line inside out. At about half way down the down swing is where the mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball.

What I am talking about is at about half way down the down swing the butt of the club starts working towards the front left pocket as the club head is moving towards the ball. (Changing Ends) I call it. If the butt of the club keeps moving towards the ball from an inside out path you will shank or block the shot. This is what I call the right hand under the left through impact and from this position a golfer will rotate the right hand over the left or flip through impact to save the shot.

When the butt of the club works towards the left front pocket (Changing Ends) you will have the correct alignment of the right hand above the left through impact. I am working on short videos of faults and fixes and this is one that I will post on YouTube. It is not easy to explain it in just words here on the forum. It is something you need to see the action.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

You said it was tough to explain in words. I think you did a pretty good job of it myself. I have been trying to get people out of that stupid pump drill where they pull the handle all the way toward the ball then shank their next shot trying it. Great advice Gh. The handle absolutely has to switch directions low left.

 

[Damon Lucas]

At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball. The butt of the club looks like it is moving on a line inside out. At about half way down the down swing is where the mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball.

What I am talking about is at about half way down the down swing the butt of the club starts working towards the front left pocket as the club head is moving towards the ball. (Changing Ends) I call it. If the butt of the club keeps moving towards the ball from an inside out path you will shank or block the shot. This is what I call the right hand under the left through impact and from this position a golfer will rotate the right hand over the left or flip through impact to save the shot.

When the butt of the club works towards the left front pocket (Changing Ends) you will have the correct alignment of the right hand above the left through impact. I am working on short videos of faults and fixes and this is one that I will post on YouTube. It is not easy to explain it in just words here on the forum. It is something you need to see the action.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

Nice description, John.
Well done!

 

[curtisj76]

You said it was tough to explain in words. I think you did a pretty good job of it myself. I have been trying to get people out of that stupid pump drill where they pull the handle all the way toward the ball then shank their next shot trying it. Great advice Gh. The handle absolutely has to switch directions low left.

I think I'm gonna try this "left pocket stuff". I think your description is a problem I deal with.

Thanks

 

[curtisj76]

Ok, was just thinking. What about the POINT during the TOSS?? It seems like we are pulling the handle all the way toward the ball. No? What's the difference between the two? THanks

 

[bcoak]

At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball. The butt of the club looks like it is moving on a line inside out. At about half way down the down swing is where the mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball.

What I am talking about is at about half way down the down swing the butt of the club starts working towards the front left pocket as the club head is moving towards the ball. (Changing Ends) I call it. If the butt of the club keeps moving towards the ball from an inside out path you will shank or block the shot. This is what I call the right hand under the left through impact and from this position a golfer will rotate the right hand over the left or flip through impact to save the shot.

When the butt of the club works towards the left front pocket (Changing Ends) you will have the correct alignment of the right hand above the left through impact. I am working on short videos of faults and fixes and this is one that I will post on YouTube. It is not easy to explain it in just words here on the forum. It is something you need to see the action.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

Do not want to post a link to another site (golf mag), but there is a great video explaining this move. It is in TGM terms, titled Educate your hands.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Ok, was just thinking. What about the POINT during the TOSS?? It seems like we are pulling the handle all the way toward the ball. No? What's the difference between the two? THanks

It's all customized, remember? The toss is for people who need it. Handle low left is for people who need that.

 

[vjsinger]

Blocking with the Driver...Changing Ends fixed it.

At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball. The butt of the club looks like it is moving on a line inside out. At about half way down the down swing is where the mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball.

What I am talking about is at about half way down the down swing the butt of the club starts working towards the front left pocket as the club head is moving towards the ball. (Changing Ends) I call it. If the butt of the club keeps moving towards the ball from an inside out path you will shank or block the shot. This is what I call the right hand under the left through impact and from this position a golfer will rotate the right hand over the left or flip through impact to save the shot.

When the butt of the club works towards the left front pocket (Changing Ends) you will have the correct alignment of the right hand above the left through impact. I am working on short videos of faults and fixes and this is one that I will post on YouTube. It is not easy to explain it in just words here on the forum. It is something you need to see the action.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

Over the last few days I've started to experiment with alot of different things and over the course of trying to get more dynamic motion in the club I started to have some issues with squaring the club at the bottom and started hitting some really, really long straight pushes with the Driver. I tried alot of things to help the ball start on line better and this explanation fixed it after a few swings. Its really fun to see the look on someones face when you carry their ball by 50 yards I think I have to change Drivers eventually,I can almost break the shaft just trying to bend it with my hands/arms, thats another story. Nonetheless...IMO world class post and explanation, thanks John.

 

[pieman]

thanks gh. you gave the info i needed to confirm.

 

[wdking]

Never Heard This Before

At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball. The butt of the club looks like it is moving on a line inside out. At about half way down the down swing is where the mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball.

What I am talking about is at about half way down the down swing the butt of the club starts working towards the front left pocket as the club head is moving towards the ball. (Changing Ends) I call it. If the butt of the club keeps moving towards the ball from an inside out path you will shank or block the shot. This is what I call the right hand under the left through impact and from this position a golfer will rotate the right hand over the left or flip through impact to save the shot.

When the butt of the club works towards the left front pocket (Changing Ends) you will have the correct alignment of the right hand above the left through impact. I am working on short videos of faults and fixes and this is one that I will post on YouTube. It is not easy to explain it in just words here on the forum. It is something you need to see the action.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

But I'm an occasional Hosel-Lagger, would love to see this in action.
Any other videos to look at. Kind of feels like twistaway from NSA.

 

[johnpritch]

A huge thank you to Curtis for starting this thread and particulary to John for the explanations - I've had about half a dozen sessions with this and it seems like a magic bullet for my swing, simply by the effect on the downswing path and tempo. One of the lads watched me hit a few tonight and asked how I'd stopped the loop to the inside that people tell me I always had! I look forward to the youtube video and to learning how to get the left pocket bit.

John

 

[Bronco Billy]

John's-Two Plane DownSwing....

At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball. The butt of the club looks like it is moving on a line inside out. At about half way down the down swing is where the mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball.

What I am talking about is at about half way down the down swing the butt of the club starts working towards the front left pocket as the club head is moving towards the ball. (Changing Ends) I call it. If the butt of the club keeps moving towards the ball from an inside out path you will shank or block the shot. This is what I call the right hand under the left through impact and from this position a golfer will rotate the right hand over the left or flip through impact to save the shot.

When the butt of the club works towards the left front pocket (Changing Ends) you will have the correct alignment of the right hand above the left through impact. I am working on short videos of faults and fixes and this is one that I will post on YouTube. It is not easy to explain it in just words here on the forum. It is something you need to see the action.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

John You Are Advocating a Two Plane DownSwing...The First Half of the DownSwing the Butt End of the Club Points at the GolfBall and the Second Half of the DownSwing the Butt End Points at the Left Pocket.....The Plane Truth is That the Butt End Should NEVER Point at the Golf Ball and Should ONLY Point at the Left Pocket From the Get Go..... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge....

Ps. This Pointing of the Butt End of the Club at the GolfBall is the Main Reason Why Johnny Can't Play Golf.....

 

[Guitar Hero]

You said it was tough to explain in words. I think you did a pretty good job of it myself. I have been trying to get people out of that stupid pump drill where they pull the handle all the way toward the ball then shank their next shot trying it. Great advice Gh. The handle absolutely has to switch directions low left.

I like that you wrote "The handle absolutely has to switch directions low left." You are right about the pump drill. It is bad news! It is a shank move for sure.

 

[Guitar Hero]

gh,
fascinating info. is this concept like a slap shot in hockey? if so would splitting the hands on the grip help in training the hands? keep the info coming. great thread.
jimmy

I don't know much about hockey shots but I am sure someone here could help with that.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Hey Johnny.... Check This Dude Out....

Billy, You need to learn how to read.

You wrote “The First Half of the DownSwing the Butt End of the Club Points at the GolfBall and the Second Half of the DownSwing the Butt End Points at the Left Pocket.....

Ps. This Pointing of the Butt End of the Club at the GolfBall is the Main Reason Why Johnny Can't Play Golf.....

I wrote. “At the start of the down swing when the right shoulder is working down on plane the butt of the club is moving towards the ball.” I never said it points at the ball.

Then I wrote this. “The mistake happens with many golfers as they will continue to pull or direct the butt of the club in that inside out direction to the ball”.

Maybe for you I should have said "At the start of the down swing the butt starts down and forward working towards the left pocket."

Ps. The Main Reason Why Johnny Can't Play Golf is he can’t read or understand what is written.....

He Sure as Hell Didn't Get Here Aiming the Butt of the Club at the GolfBall... This is the "Ideal" Golf Plane and This "Ideal" Plane is Defined by the Left Arm.... Have a Great Day With Your New Found Knowledge....

 

[Guitar Hero]

Here is a video showing the handle moving to the left pocket. Go to 0:50 to 0:58 in the video and you will see what I am talking about. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDwXCF_zKQ&feature=channel_page[/media]

 

[curtisj76]

Let's not try to get in a pissing contest guys.

 

[vjsinger]

Agreed, I don't want Brian to get rid of the thread. I already subscribed to it and want to keep it for future reference. Lets stop this right here....please.

 

[mandrin]

Here is a video showing the handle moving to the left pocket. Go to 0:50 to 0:58 in the video and you will see what I am talking about. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDwXCF_zKQ&feature=channel_page[/media]

John,

Your video is reminiscent of a somewhat similar kind of motion taught and referred to as ‘Constantly Correct Clubface Plane’. It is very much related also to admonitions given by teachers re to keeping the club bisecting the arms or keeping the arms in front of the body during the swing. The idea of drop and catch is also along the vein. They all have a definite 3d flavour.

Your video and some of your posts reminded me, when starting to do some math modeling, that early on I realized there to be 2 distinct types of swings, either a 2d swing or 3d swing. There is indeed a lot of emphasis on 2d swinging for the obvious reason that it is much easier to handle by our brains. The 3d swing, such as your robotic swing, does away with the conventional concept of planes for explanations.

The 3d swing is not that hard to model mathematically but it is much more pain in the neck for displaying information which is so charmingly simple in 2d. All the various planes and all the multiple lines usually being drawn indeed is prove that it so attractively simple that one tries to stretch its usefulness to quasi impossible limits.

I admire your clear concise explanations. A rather arduous task when it comes to explain the always-subtle motions and motives. A long time ago, I made up an illustration for another forum. I really don’t remember quite exactly why but it seems to relate to swinging left, changing ends, extensor action, etc. Therefore, I put it up for anyone’s guess what it might possibly represent in his or her own swing.

​

 

[ggsjpc]

wait for it, wait for it, wait for it ahhh......there's the plug.