EDZ's own version of 2-K

ForeverNewbie · Oct 30, 2004

Hi:
Is there a better visualization other than a flail? Perhaps something that isn't from the Middle Ages? I recently saw a documentary about a 14th century uprising of the Welsh against the English and the use of the flail was described. Looked like the flail was being swung by the right arm at the opponent with an outside in motion, not by the left arm and the inside out motion of a golf swing and frisbee. Actually the frisbee example works better for me.

Bye

rwh · Oct 30, 2004

quote:Originally posted by ForeverNewbie

Hi:
Is there a better visualization other than a flail? Perhaps something that isn't from the Middle Ages? I recently saw a documentary about a 14th century uprising of the Welsh against the English and the use of the flail was described. Looked like the flail was being swung by the right arm at the opponent with an outside in motion, not by the left arm and the inside out motion of a golf swing and frisbee. Actually the frisbee example works better for me.

Bye

The importance of the flail illustration is that the bottom part wants to get in=line with the top part as it is swung. In golf, at the Top of the swing, the club and the arm are not in a straight line. As the club is swung down and out, the club seeks to get in a straight line with the left arm.

denny. · Oct 31, 2004

Homer was asked about the problem of the moving center(of the flail).He said that in the 4/10,000
of a second that the ball was on the face that it didn't matter.

EdZ · Nov 2, 2004

quote:Originally posted by rwh

EdZ,

You're passionate, you're a thinker and I agree with you a lot of times. I can see why you like the idea of the center of the swing being the base of the neck. However, I'm really comfortable with the view that the Left Shoulder is the center of the Swing and the base of the Neck is the center of the Pivot. The bottom line for me is not that your view is necessarily "wrong"; rather, I just don't feel persuaded that my view is wrong and/or that there is any need to change it.

Thanks rhw - I don't think the current view is 'wrong' at all, only incomplete. If TGM is to be the 'complete catalog' it needs to explain fully, and I think the revised view does a better job of that.

EdZ · Nov 2, 2004

quote:Originally posted by ForeverNewbie

Hi:
Is there a better visualization other than a flail? Perhaps something that isn't from the Middle Ages? I recently saw a documentary about a 14th century uprising of the Welsh against the English and the use of the flail was described. Looked like the flail was being swung by the right arm at the opponent with an outside in motion, not by the left arm and the inside out motion of a golf swing and frisbee. Actually the frisbee example works better for me.

Bye

A flail is nothing but a whip with a hinge - a 'more solid whip'

Thinking in 'whip' terms has the added benefit of conveying a more clear explaination of 'how force moves' in a golf swing IMO.

Both are valid ways to 'describe' and to 'model' the swing.

EdZ · Nov 2, 2004

quote:Originally posted by njmp2

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

A good quote from Yoda on the TGM site that is applicable to the concept I am talking about:

(yoda)
You don't swing 'down along it!' You swing down and through it. Remember, this is just a line on the face of an Inclined Plane that actually extends into the ground. And in that ground is another Plane Line, the Low Point Plane Line. You don't 'see' that one on the top of ground.
(/yoda)

It is this 'low point plane line' that represents true, full extension

Click to expand...

Full extension is not at the low point plane line either, it comes after that line too. Full extensor there is a power leakage. Truely.

Can you elaborate on your answer here?

EdZ · Nov 2, 2004

quote:Originally posted by denny.

Homer was asked about the problem of the moving center(of the flail).He said that in the 4/10,000
of a second that the ball was on the face that it didn't matter.

That to me, sounds like a dismissal of the laws of physics because they didn't fit the model he had envisioned exactly the way he had envisioned it.

And yet, the laws apply.

corky05 · Nov 3, 2004

http://www.knightsedge.com/flails.htm

I was looking at flails on this website. Trying to imagine how and why Homer would use this in his description and how the nomenclature of the flail would translate into our bodyparts and golfclub. I thought a better understanding of usinig a flail efficiently or inefficiently could prove useful!
I believe the wooden dowel portion represents the straight left arm, the chain represents the shaft, and the spiney ball represents the clubhead. The weapon appears as though it would be held in the hand and swung at the victim. There is no presumption that the butt end stay stable/stationary. So if the butt end represents the end of the weapon 180 degrees from the clubhead, it would be the upper portion of the arm that attaches into the --------? Shoulder! Yes, there is movement in our left shoulder, but the premise that it has to be stable is unfounded. Homer seemed smart enough that if he wanted to illustrate the center to be between the shoulders, he would have likened the golf swing to the Hammer Throw, where the motion is more rotational. It would not be very efficient in my mind to wield a flail in this fashion. There is no correlation between a stable center and a flail. In other words, To effectively kill a person with a flail, you do not have to keep your shoulder still. This simple machine doesn't work that way.
Would love feedback from others and particularly those close to Homer's teachings. Thanks!

EdZ · Nov 5, 2004

Nice video clip Lynn. Great work.

Looks to me like we agree about force. Whatever the description used, both arms straight is important. Very important.

corky05 · Nov 5, 2004

Yep! Exactly! You can't have your center behind the ball or you would cast at both arms straight. I'm glad we concluded swing center is left shoulder. Congrats, Ed!

EdZ · Nov 5, 2004

Corky - you have your view. I'm glad you have convinced yourself of it. I disagree with your view. You disagree with mine.

Do you have a problem with that?

corky05 · Nov 5, 2004

No! I think we closer to the same side.

- 10/27/2004 : 16:16:38
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quote:
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Originally posted by corky05

No, Ed! Your position is incorrect because what you say is happening is inconsistant with what really is happening. The pictures don't lie. I havn't anything to defend. The onus is on you. The established idea prevails until you can dissuade us. You've only reinforced why Homer was correct. You are your own worst enemy. You dig the hole deeper and deeper. "tempest venturi" ball socket in the sternum!

(Ed Quote)
Your inability, or unwillingness, to understand my position does not make my view incorrect, but I see that you assume that it does. Your inability to defend YOUR position with anything other than "I'm right and your wrong", while amusing, doesn't mean you have defended your view.(End Quote)

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Fine Corky - you win. You must be correct. (unquote)

EdZ · Nov 6, 2004

not the sternum corky, but honestly I don't care what you think about my view. We disagree. Get over it. Move on. Go play some golf. Have fun.

njmp2 · Nov 6, 2004

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

not the sternum corky, but honestly I don't care what you think about my view. We disagree. Get over it. Move on. Go play some golf. Have fun.

It is you EDZ that needs to get over it. Everyone disagrees with you, including the Yoda and Homer. I will hitch my wagon to their teaching, it has done wonders for my game already and steer clear of yours.

I think it is funny how you use the phrase "convinced yourself" to Cork as if he needed to go thru a 10 step program to except what EVERYONE else excepts. You need to help ED.

corky05 · Nov 6, 2004

Its official, bump that diagnosis from neurotic to psychotic.

Its ANOTHER conspirasy? Aliens are invading!

"Copyright EdZ 2004 All Rights Reserved

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell"

Remember when he used to accuse Brian of being Corky05? What a nut case. Probably hasn't picked up a club since 1973?