Effective striking mass of clubhead
- Thread starter mandrin
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Perfect Impact
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Point taken. Tx for that link. This is how Mark McGwire plays golf. VERY long hitter.
mandrin
New
Blake & Kelley
His belief is similar to HK. He feels definitely that one can influence impact. A few paragraphs to allow an appreciation of his argumentation.
“With the high-pressure swing, the golfer takes the club to the top of the swing and winds up on the downswing so that his muscles are stretched at impact and he exerts pressure. The clubhead may be traveling at only, say, 85 mph, but its speed will not drop below 80 mph on contact with the ball.
“The ball is probably on the clubface for three quarters of an inch with the high-speed swing. With the high-pressure swing, the distance increases to more than an inch. Despite the slower sing, length is not reduced because you are applying force through a distance instead of just causing a collision.”
“There is also a bonus with the high pressure swing. The shaft of the club bends slightly in the downswing and bends a little more on contact with the ball. The ball, in its turn, is squashed. Therefore, the longer you can keep the clubhead and the ball together, the more bonus power you obtain and the shaft of the club straightens and the ball returns to its normal shape.”
It is very amazing that Blake a respected scientist, a war hero, even lecturing, who at one stage got quite known and invited to USA to tour around to demonstrate his rather particular swing, could, as a scientist, publish his ideas without any evidence whatsoever and not being rebuked by someone.
For instance his belief that ‘a clubhead may be traveling at only, say, 85 mph, but its speed will not drop below 80 mph on contact with the ball’, is a gross error. It is physically impossible. For an incoming clubhead speed of 85mph the speed after impact will be somewhere around 60 mph.
His idea of extending dwell contact from ¾ inch to one inch is similar to Burner’s theory about extending dwell time which I analysed in my post: ‘Real physics in action’. The idea of being able to deliberately keep the clubface on the ball longer just doesn't fit reality.
It is clear that Blake is convinced that you can really control impact by applying a slow heavy ‘pressure swing’ through impact. I am quite sure that these ideas would not make him a Noble Prize candidate for Physics.
g2m, you will readily notice the similarity between the ideas of Kelley and Blake. The latter published his two books in 1972 and 1978, hence in the same era when HK started to publish TGM.
golf2much, if Mindy Blake depended on golf to make a living I would more readily inclined to agree with you. However this wasn’t the case, rather a scientist taking up golf later in life with passion and trying to find once for all the final truth, published in two books: (1) The Golf Swing of the Future and (2) GOLF – The Technique Barrier.
His belief is similar to HK. He feels definitely that one can influence impact. A few paragraphs to allow an appreciation of his argumentation.
“With the high-pressure swing, the golfer takes the club to the top of the swing and winds up on the downswing so that his muscles are stretched at impact and he exerts pressure. The clubhead may be traveling at only, say, 85 mph, but its speed will not drop below 80 mph on contact with the ball.
“The ball is probably on the clubface for three quarters of an inch with the high-speed swing. With the high-pressure swing, the distance increases to more than an inch. Despite the slower sing, length is not reduced because you are applying force through a distance instead of just causing a collision.”
“There is also a bonus with the high pressure swing. The shaft of the club bends slightly in the downswing and bends a little more on contact with the ball. The ball, in its turn, is squashed. Therefore, the longer you can keep the clubhead and the ball together, the more bonus power you obtain and the shaft of the club straightens and the ball returns to its normal shape.”
It is very amazing that Blake a respected scientist, a war hero, even lecturing, who at one stage got quite known and invited to USA to tour around to demonstrate his rather particular swing, could, as a scientist, publish his ideas without any evidence whatsoever and not being rebuked by someone.
For instance his belief that ‘a clubhead may be traveling at only, say, 85 mph, but its speed will not drop below 80 mph on contact with the ball’, is a gross error. It is physically impossible. For an incoming clubhead speed of 85mph the speed after impact will be somewhere around 60 mph.
His idea of extending dwell contact from ¾ inch to one inch is similar to Burner’s theory about extending dwell time which I analysed in my post: ‘Real physics in action’. The idea of being able to deliberately keep the clubface on the ball longer just doesn't fit reality.
It is clear that Blake is convinced that you can really control impact by applying a slow heavy ‘pressure swing’ through impact. I am quite sure that these ideas would not make him a Noble Prize candidate for Physics.
g2m, you will readily notice the similarity between the ideas of Kelley and Blake. The latter published his two books in 1972 and 1978, hence in the same era when HK started to publish TGM.
Man;
I guess Harold Edgerton was too busy studying bullets passing through balloons to turn his considerable talents to the golf club/ball collision. He could have saved Blake a lot of trouble. Even without HE and MIT, there should have been siginficant high speed photography done that would have shown Blake incorrect, but then again, maybe not. I'm not familiar with Blakes work, golf or otherwise, so I didn't realize he was a working scientist trying to explain the golf swing. His errors are pretty significant.
G2M
I guess Harold Edgerton was too busy studying bullets passing through balloons to turn his considerable talents to the golf club/ball collision. He could have saved Blake a lot of trouble. Even without HE and MIT, there should have been siginficant high speed photography done that would have shown Blake incorrect, but then again, maybe not. I'm not familiar with Blakes work, golf or otherwise, so I didn't realize he was a working scientist trying to explain the golf swing. His errors are pretty significant.
G2M
birdie_man
New
Dunno if u were trying to match up the two columns mandrin but I wanna point out that effort would be better suited to Hitting and effortless to Swinging.
birdie_man
New
So what's the jist of that link? (I read some of it then I got a headache)
Great hitters push and pull?
Perfect Impact
New
I disagree with the "impulses" that allow for the torqued kind of hitting as using more effort than lurching one's whole body to provide centrifugal force/swinging. just my take on it.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Stallion and the Science Majors....
I have the answer to the above (How can you swing slower and hit harder) in my answer below...
See if you can find it:
Winner gets a free Manzella Video!
You resist "Clubhead Deceleration" and therefore have an optimum impact interval by:
I have the answer to the above (How can you swing slower and hit harder) in my answer below...
See if you can find it:
Winner gets a free Manzella Video!
You resist "Clubhead Deceleration" and therefore have an optimum impact interval by:
- USING "Clubhead Sweetspot Lag Pressure" to AIM the sweetspot and STRESS the shaft (by pulling or pushing or both).
- USING a PIVOT that CREATES force and AIMS it as well,
- USING #1 and #2 to put that SWEETSPOT and the GOLF CLUB in "position" at and through impact.
- UNDERSTANDING and UTILIZING the fact that the Sweetspot partially GETS IN this "position" by way of a FORWARD KICKING SHAFT that propels this sweetspot "Through the ball"---the LINE of Compression. When the sweetspot is being propeled by this forward (and downward, AND AROUND-ward [torque]) kicking shaft, the CLUBHEAD at least somewhat acts as if it is "disconnected" to the rest of the club and therefore the golfer.
Last edited:
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
4 for me
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Hmmm...let's see...
Golf2Much: Nope. Something else matters in the "swing easy, hit hard" matter.
Damon: You are in the right #, #4, but it needs to be explained further, so...
everyone else is still eligible!
Golf2Much: Nope. Something else matters in the "swing easy, hit hard" matter.
Damon: You are in the right #, #4, but it needs to be explained further, so...
everyone else is still eligible!
swinging easy makes it easier to:
1) have a late snap realease giving more acceleration just before impact (including a forward kicking shaft)
2) better impact conditions (sweetspot on correct place on inside aft quadrant to STLOC)
birdie_man
New
No Overacceleration = no lag loss.
Seeking the free video and an inline condition.
Brian wrote:
"UNDERSTANDING and UTILIZING the fact that the Sweetspot partially GETS IN this "position" by way of a FORWARD KICKING SHAFT that propels this sweetspot "Through the ball"---the LINE of Compression. When the sweetspot is being propeled by this forward (and downward, AND AROUND-ward [torque]) kicking shaft, the CLUBHEAD at least somewhat acts as if it is "disconnected" to the rest of the club and therefore the golfer."
The Sweetspot is seeking an "inline" condition. Approaching impact, the sweetspot is attached to the lagging clubhead on a backward flexed shaft. At impact the primary lever assembly actually decelerates, COAM then transfers energy from the primary lever assembly into the secondary lever assembly (the club). This energy transfer causes the clubhead to accelerate, and the shaft to flex forward seeking a straight line condition. Once the shaft has established the straight line condition, COAM then transfers energy from the shaft (hosel) to the sweetspot. The hosel is slightly ahead of the sweetspot at impact, in the effortless swing and the sweetspot is using COAM to overtake the hosel --just as the flexed shaft used COAM to overtake the primary lever assembly--and does this just after separation. Pivot to arms, arms to shaft, shaft to hosel, hosel to sweetspot, sweetspot to ball goes the kinetic chain. Each link is constantly seeking its inline condition to the immediately preceding link.
Brian wrote:
"UNDERSTANDING and UTILIZING the fact that the Sweetspot partially GETS IN this "position" by way of a FORWARD KICKING SHAFT that propels this sweetspot "Through the ball"---the LINE of Compression. When the sweetspot is being propeled by this forward (and downward, AND AROUND-ward [torque]) kicking shaft, the CLUBHEAD at least somewhat acts as if it is "disconnected" to the rest of the club and therefore the golfer."
The Sweetspot is seeking an "inline" condition. Approaching impact, the sweetspot is attached to the lagging clubhead on a backward flexed shaft. At impact the primary lever assembly actually decelerates, COAM then transfers energy from the primary lever assembly into the secondary lever assembly (the club). This energy transfer causes the clubhead to accelerate, and the shaft to flex forward seeking a straight line condition. Once the shaft has established the straight line condition, COAM then transfers energy from the shaft (hosel) to the sweetspot. The hosel is slightly ahead of the sweetspot at impact, in the effortless swing and the sweetspot is using COAM to overtake the hosel --just as the flexed shaft used COAM to overtake the primary lever assembly--and does this just after separation. Pivot to arms, arms to shaft, shaft to hosel, hosel to sweetspot, sweetspot to ball goes the kinetic chain. Each link is constantly seeking its inline condition to the immediately preceding link.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Winner!
ToBell wins, but a simplier answer would have done as well. Something like:
"They release the KICK better when they swing slower."
ToBell wins, but a simplier answer would have done as well. Something like:
"They release the KICK better when they swing slower."
OK so I don't get the video...
But, pray tell how is this not the "Optimum Impact Interval"? Can't get any better than optimum can it?
G2M
But, pray tell how is this not the "Optimum Impact Interval"? Can't get any better than optimum can it?
G2M
Liftoff apply Torque don't try to decel
Liftoff
Check out and understand COAM. The link below may help. Your take on deceleration brings to mind something in Joe Dante's book "The Four Magic Moves of Winning Golf" where he references a big hitting ole-timer who actually cut-off his swing very abruptly @ the follow-through. You can see John Daly do this on his punch iron shots--in short they have spent their expertly directed torque down the kinetic chain. As you apply torque, via the properly directed thrust of your swing the transfer of kinetic energy will occur automatically. You don’t consciously decelerate, you consciously apply thrust via your pressure points.
Torque and what HK refers to as "The Law of the Flail" work intricately together. The flail is constantly seeking its inline condition--even if it means going backwards! Thus improperly directed torque can cause the flail to align too early--before impact--and cause a loss of power. The image of a wrench slipping a nut due to misdirected thrust and the subsequent pain of bloody knuckles come to mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_angular_momentum
Liftoff
Check out and understand COAM. The link below may help. Your take on deceleration brings to mind something in Joe Dante's book "The Four Magic Moves of Winning Golf" where he references a big hitting ole-timer who actually cut-off his swing very abruptly @ the follow-through. You can see John Daly do this on his punch iron shots--in short they have spent their expertly directed torque down the kinetic chain. As you apply torque, via the properly directed thrust of your swing the transfer of kinetic energy will occur automatically. You don’t consciously decelerate, you consciously apply thrust via your pressure points.
Torque and what HK refers to as "The Law of the Flail" work intricately together. The flail is constantly seeking its inline condition--even if it means going backwards! Thus improperly directed torque can cause the flail to align too early--before impact--and cause a loss of power. The image of a wrench slipping a nut due to misdirected thrust and the subsequent pain of bloody knuckles come to mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_angular_momentum
RicoSuave
New
horizontal hinge more headspeed
thanks for this great link palmreader;
seems, that this technique proofs that also in golf, the horizontal hinge
generates more headspeed
thanks for this great link palmreader;
seems, that this technique proofs that also in golf, the horizontal hinge
generates more headspeed
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