Face control - Which movement / body position?

[Frans@France]

Which part of the swing movement or body position has the biggest influence over the position of the face at impact?

Is it as "simple" as grip or maybe the pivot? Right shoulder direction in de downswing? Spine angle?

I seem to have found almost every connection between body motion/ feeling of body motion and impact parameters but I can't find the major contributor to face control.

 

[cwdlaw223]

I would like to know the answer as well. I hate just saying timing, but that's all that I can come up with. I wonder if we have such problems with face control because the clubhead isn't as connected as we think it is to the grip/shaft during the impact area. Great point by Brian in his release video. It looks like its connected on slow motion video, but in practice it isn't as connected as we think.

 

[ekennedy]

Hands.

I'm sure there are arguments that can be made about other body motions, pivots, etc. but none can be made without including the hands.

 

[Frans@France]

Hands.

I'm sure there are arguments that can be made about other body motions, pivots, etc. but none can be made without including the hands.

position of the hands (grip) or movement of the hands?

 

[mgranato]

Yes

 

[Brian Manzella]

If you are an "over-roller" you simply had the damn club too open when you were entering the Release Phase.

Rate of Rotation?

Simply another way to say "the face was too open and I had to slam it shut."

Which isn't any good BTW.



Next subject.

 

[Matt Bryda]

what about arms or just lead arm

if arm comes in left or right or steep then

makes the job of the hands tougher

 

[Kevin Shields]

Which part of the swing movement or body position has the biggest influence over the position of the face at impact?

Is it as "simple" as grip or maybe the pivot? Right shoulder direction in de downswing? Spine angle?

I seem to have found almost every connection between body motion/ feeling of body motion and impact parameters but I can't find the major contributor to face control.

For a good club face position.....hands
For a bad one.....body over tilting or early tilting

 

[Frans@France]

For a good club face position.....hands

rigth and left hand contribute the same amount? I can almost let go the rigth hand before impact and still see a closed face on the TM. I don't feel any movement however.

or is this already a done deal as soon as the body is commited to the execution of the swing? So more a hands position shortly after transition?

 

[wulsy]

If you are an "over-roller" you simply had the damn club too open when you were entering the Release Phase.

Rate of Rotation?

Simply another way to say "the face was too open and I had to slam it shut."

Which isn't any good BTW.



Next subject.

No disagreeing a such, but why the assumption that the golfer "knows" to shut when it's open. Does he open when it's shut? I don't think so.

 

[Dariusz J.]

If you are an "over-roller" you simply had the damn club too open when you were entering the Release Phase.

Rate of Rotation?

Simply another way to say "the face was too open and I had to slam it shut."

Which isn't any good BTW.



Next subject.

Very well said.

Cheers

 

[Kevin Shields]

No disagreeing a such, but why the assumption that the golfer "knows" to shut when it's open. Does he open when it's shut? I don't think so.

If you taught for a living, you'd say otherwise. Ive seen countless closed faces try to open it up thru the ball by winging or working under it late. Also, even those who know to shut an open face still often don't get it closed obviously.

 

[wulsy]

I know what you're sayin Kev, and as I said in my previous post I'm not really disagreeing.

But of course the logical consequence of this intuitive correction would be that folks don't hit it right goin right and left goin left, no?

I'll bet you've seen quite a few coming in closed and rolling as well. Probably decent players too. (OK, they might have an extreme inside path).

But fair enough, I can't really make much of an argument against the assumption that folks generally find a way to hit it where they want by adjusting the face intuitively.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Without question. But to your point, the right ward path intuitively makes them feel the flight will be out to the right, hence the closed and closing. I dont see many purely right ward paths who dont try some sort of closing or pure leftward paths that dont try some degree of shoveling.

 

[Frans@France]

If you are an "over-roller" you simply had the damn club too open when you were entering the Release Phase.

Rate of Rotation?

Simply another way to say "the face was too open and I had to slam it shut."

Which isn't any good BTW.

Next subject.

So, if face control is off then the position of the face before entering the release phase is inconsistant in the first place?

 

[Brian Manzella]

So, if face control is off then the position of the face before entering the release phase is inconsistant in the first place?

Ah....yeah.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Does the face actually close at different rates depending on the VSP? I don't know if this got asked at ASII in the end.

Also does the clubhead overtake the hands at different rates given different relationships between the clubhead and the hands?

Thanks

 

[Frans@France]

Ah....yeah.

Thanks! Now the question becomes : how can i "sense" face postion entering the release phase? Which hand and/or hand parts do I need to focus on the sense the position?

 

[JEREMY5577]

Thanks! Now the question becomes : how can i "sense" face postion entering the release phase? Which hand and/or hand parts do I need to focus on the sense the position?

Frans, I ran into what I think is an asnswer to this question by accident. I'm not sure if it's right or wrong, but as I started to become comfortable with applying a little torque around the coupling point via the "push pull" I started to notice an awareness of the clubface that wasn't there before. I could feel if it was square, open, shut. It works awesome with chipping and pitching too. As your giving her a little push/pull think of the clubface and don't forget to go normal.

 

[tongzilla]

Which part of the swing movement or body position has the biggest influence over the position of the face at impact?

The hands. The hands affect the clubhead/face directly, which indirectly affects your body position.