Fade and Draws

[h71y6]

What's the best way to perform a fade or a draw?

There are some who set up for it.

And then there are some who changes swing path.

Finally there are ones who varies the finish, holding off release for a fade, low and left for a draw.

I'm trying to improve my game by having control over ball flight and any input on your experience and how you do it consistently and with some amount of predictability.

 

[Leek]

I just aim left and bow my left wrist through impact for a fade. I aim a little right and open my clubface a hair for a draw.

 

[birdie_man]

You must mean "close my clubface" Leek.

 

[Leek]

birdie- believe it or not, I mean open. Now when I say open, I don't open then grip. I take a neutral grip, set the club behind the ball, twist it open a few degrees (making an open face with a stronger grip), then swing. I think it makes me close the club a little faster, not sure but it works.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Leek, works for me, too. Open face (and a bit closed stance) at address enhance me to hit the inside aft quadrant of the ball with a fast closing clubface. Obviously, my path from the inside is angled a bit more than clubface is open at impact - hence the slight draw that starts a bit right to the target and ends left of the target.

Cheers

 

[bcoak]

How many of you hit either a fade/draw for each shot? ie, shape your shot

 

[birdie_man]

You guys are weird man...



No really tho.......you must be doing something else different. Because if you take the same swing with a more open clubface it simply is going more right.

Maybe you are opening it with your body? (and closing your shoulders in the process?) Or maybe you are controlling the clubface differently?

Or maybe you are freakish anomalies.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

You guys are weird man...



No really tho.......you must be doing something else different. Because if you take the same swing with a more open clubface it simply is going more right.

Maybe you are opening it with your body? (and closing your shoulders in the process?) Or maybe you are controlling the clubface differently?

Or maybe you are freakish anomalies.

birdie, they are closing their plane line and if you don't open the face to accomodate you will have a severely closed face (to that plane line) and you'll hook it.

Essentially, if you had a square plane line and swung in/out 4* with a 2* open face you'd get a soft draw.

Now if you close your stance 4*, you have created a much higher in/out path and if you hit it with the same face you'll hook it.

------------

Try it out some time:

Square stance, square face.
Close stance without adjusting face.
Now do your best to hit the inside of the ball.

You probably won't cuz the face is too closed (to your new plane line) and you'll hit somewhere around the back of it and the ball will start much further left than what you wanted and will hook even further left of where you wanted it to end up.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Essentially, if you had a square plane line and swung in/out 4* with a 2* open face you'd get a soft draw

Exactly, Jim. Great example - more or less it's what my Bengston simulator shows: 3-6* in-to-out, 1-3* open face (just a hair pre-impact). Used to be worse before up to 12* from the inside - Brian Towel Drill helped a ton. Now, when I can fade the shot I prefer a slight fade, especially with mid- and short irons (readings: 0-3* in-to-out, 3-6* open face).

Cheers

 

[Leek]

Jim

Thanks for explaining that to me. If you didn't notice, I had no idea why it works, it just works for me.

At least with the fade, I understand it.

 

[Leek]

Dariusz- which towel drill? The only thing I can think of is the midnight video of a towel plane board.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Yes, towel plane board drill, used mental abbreviation, sorry.

Cheers

 

[imac]

Dariusz, What can you tell me about the Bengston simulator? Can't find much about it. Recommended?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Thanks for the compliments, unfortunately i can't take donations anymore...stupid amatuer rule

 

[Dariusz J.]

Imac, we have a Bengston swing analyzer in our office and have been using it for almost 2 years now. I don't want to compare it to other ones (BTW, we had been thinking before what to choose: Bengston or P3Pro), however, easiness of operating this simulator is a very good thing. We also took it to the range outside to see if it can copy various swings and ball flights and it worked very well.
In fact, thanks to this analyzer I become aware of path-clubface angle correlation - what combination of clubface angle at impact & swing path gives what type of shot. I also become aware that I couldn't play good golf with my personal swing characteristics that I had before...

As regards the data measured by Bengston - they seem to be reliable to me - besides I've heard that some of our clubfitting friends compared the Bengston data with those from launch monitor and:

"The Bengston measures before impact and calculates the information for after impact data. Accuracy for yardage calculation is relative, if you are fitting, as long as the information is consistent and it is. I do not find it necessay to have the actual yardage the customer hits the ball as long as I'm close and I can tell when he hits it longer or shorter with various clubs. The swing path data is measured by the sensors as is face angle and swing speed. These are measured and accurate." (<=...one of opinions)

I suggest you to visit web sites of manufacturers of home analyzers. Use e.g. Google: "home simulators".

Hope that helps

Cheers

 

[Billy_the_worm]

You could try something a little simpler (maybe I am just old fashioned)

One is a fade, one is a draw. Its all in the finish. Thats how I like to shape the ball, start with the finish and work backwards. Anything else just seems to fill my head with so much technique my brain hurts, and I have no chance of hitting any shape at all. I just step back, get into the finish, and work back

 

[self-mastery]

I love the top picture, it is what I'm working on for my mid-iron on down approach game. I've taken Hogan's cupped-to-arched left wrist mastery without the high maintenance elements of his swing... Nice medium trajectory fades into greens...

My regular stroke produces a soft draw or a penetrating pull draw if I decide to amp it up. Regular pattern for draws, and Hogans hand/wrist action for a fade...

I finally figured out how to control it the other day.... doh!!! Yet another Archimedes eureka moment!

 

[Billy_the_worm]

Yep, its a great picture. He got a fade by just holding the release, hence the higher finish, and in the lower picture you can clearly see the draw came from a faster release. Nothign to do with anything more complicated than that. The low punchy fadey hold offy chokey iron is a long forgotten art, but its such a great shot to have, such a great shot to learn and so much fun to play.Tiger plays it so well at the British Open, he doesn't seem to need it elsewhere. Garcia did a great job of copying him this year.

Hogan's swing doesn't need to be high maintenance, not when its broken down to its component parts. Cupping the wrist is just another way of saying you are holding onto the loft and applying it to the ball, its a great way of hitting irons with more spin, lower and with fade. As you say, medium trajectory fades, a must ahve shot imho.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Here's the thing, being able to vary your finish to change shot shape and trajectory is great, however that's like having the carriage telling the horse to turn left.

The finish is a RESULT of what you did PRIOR to it, and those things PRIOR to it is what caused the ball flight; not your finish.

Figure how what face conditions and what plane creates the shot you want and you will end up in that finish.

 

[Billy_the_worm]

Not for me Jim, working backwards from the finish is how I learned from an early age how to shape the ball, that way I avoided to much complication. I just learned how to hold off and how to increase the release, and getting the follow through right and working backwards was critical, still is, 27 years on.