First Move Down

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EdZ

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So are you telling me you can hand the book to someone and have them become scratch without any help?

I didn't think so.....

Did I say it is an outstanding tool/framework? yep....absolutely

but don't even TRY to tell me it is all you need.....

It is all in there, but that doesn't matter if most people can't understand it...

It is a TOOL not a complete solution.

The above is based on 30+ years of experience in golf BTW....
 
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pixie

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Saying that the first "movement is...

gravity
The left foot
the left knee
the left hip
left side
etc. "

helps nobody. It has to be more informative than that. Many times more informative than that. In fact, not only are your explanations not helpful, they can frustrate a golfer. Imagine a person trying to learn what starts down first. After reading your advice, and if they believed it, then imagine how frustrated they would be when it didn't help them progress. They might think "I have been told, by a golf instructor, how to start the downswing, but I just can't do it. What's wrong with ME? I've been given instruction. OK, I'll hit another bucket. Gravity, left foot, left knee.....crack that whip!"

On a scale of 1 to 10, personally I believe your instruction rates about 0 to 0.5. For comparison, I think that the golf magazine instruction typically rates from 4 to 8 out of 10.
You have 30 years of golf experience? Then I assume you hit the ball fairly well. I just don't understand why you instruction is so vague, unhelpful (and if somebody spends time thinking about it....wasteful).
 
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Brian Manzella

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Ok...boys...

The Golfing Machine may not be a HOW TO book, but MY personal/pre-AI/Pre-Ben Doyle experience with it is that it made me make a MUCH DIFFERENT SWING than I did before i read it 1007times.

All for the better.

No othe HOW TO book EVER did that to me and my swing!
 
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hue

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Brian: I know you worked as hard as you could going through the book before you went to Ben Doyle. In percentage terms how much can you really understand of Homer's work left to your own devices without direct assistance from an AI IYO ? Thanks.
 
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pixie

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There are just too many little gems in there which can't be found or understood unless you have access to a TGM knowledgeable person.

Don't you think the TGM book is almost useless to the typical golfer if he doesn't have access to a TGM-informed person.
Thank God for Brian, and many others who are online. Otherwise, I would have to pay $50 - $150 per hour to have access to them. And first I would have to travel to them (which would be near impossible).
 
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jrb15

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I'm leery of weighing in on the book's merits. It is obviously a remarkably useful tool in understanding the golfswing. Even unique.
But I get nervous when it starts to sound like religion. It leaves tons of room for a careful biomechanical study that replaces the jargon with more careful anatomical analysis.

As for EdZ's reply. I found it absolutely clear once he expanded on it a bit. I took it to the course today, and it helped me strike the ball more freely, and better, than I have in two months.
Thanks EdZ.
 
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hue

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quote:Originally posted by hue

Brian: I know you worked as hard as you could going through the book before you went to Ben Doyle. In percentage terms how much can you really understand of Homer's work left to your own devices without direct assistance from an AI IYO ? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Brian: You said 15% . If you chuck in the info that can be gleaned from books like Hebron's Secrets and Lies, the Ben Doyle video, your videos and those of Chuck Evans , this website, the Chuck Evans website and the TGM forum. What would you say the percentages go up to ? Thanks.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Great question.

I did much more of my OWN research (and still do) than nearly anyone,

THROUGH this research is how I realized that Homer was right.

It is NOT a religion to me, but a guide.

Homer himself said "REAMS OF ADDITIONAL MATERIAL MUST BE MADE AVAILABLE...PROBABLY ENDLESSLY"!!!!!!!!!!
 
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pixie

New
I'm not sure which magazines you get to read...
But actually, there are many magazine articles written by TGM instructors out there. Chuck Evans, Tom Stickney, etc.
Brian Manzella, soon I hope.
And from several other instructors (if you've been reading for a longer time): Phil Ritson, Martin Hall, Hank Johnson
 
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Eagletau

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north b-c asked:

quote:I am really trying to work on a few things this winter and one of them is the first move down. Is the first move to start the right elbow in front of the right hip and then start the pivot?

Thanks,
Todd
Click to expand...

For what it's worth.

For me, I know what is not the "first move", ie the hands. I try and leave them at the top for as long as possible. I swing best when my hands are passive at the top.

The next move after the non-move: I am working on the arms, not the forearms, and definitely not the feet - I want my senses to be as close to the clubhead as possible.

The body is the follower. Just as you don't hit the ball with your backswing "laddie", you dont hit it with your feet or legs or arse.

You hit the ball with your club which is connected by your hands to the 'levers'.
 
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Eagletau

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ej said:
quote:What starts the downswing?

Just as I thought...ask 10 people,get 10 different answers.
Click to expand...

I think that may be the 'democratic' answer.

Brian Manzella said:

quote: The downswing starts with the left foot.
Click to expand...

If I consciously start the downswing with the left foot I can get way ahead of the ball.

I know a lot of great golfers 'think' they make this move.

It could be another of those long-held conservative golf myths.

The first move of the arms toward the ball (or dropping) or the momentary rebalancing at the end of the backswing, that stationary moment, may give the impression that the left foots starts the downswing.
 
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McDuff

New
I( know what all the books say but the more I watch the pros, the more it looks like they are bringing thier arms down as fast as they can. Most Ams (including me) bodies are way ahead of the hands and arms at impact.
 
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hue

New
Edz wrote

The movement is as follows

gravity

The left foot
the left knee
the left hip
the left side
the left shoulder
the left arm
the left wrist
the shaft
the clubhead
impact

any other order gives up lag
give up lag, and you have lost power and control

I am with you on this but can you explain the gravity bit? I am not sure what you mean. Thanks.
 
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Eagletau

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Hue said:

quote: Edz wrote

The movement is as follows

gravity

The left foot
etc my edit
impact

any other order gives up lag
give up lag, and you have lost power and control

I am with you on this but can you explain the gravity bit?...
Click to expand...

It ain't necessarily so, especially the bit about giving up lag, and that's being nice. Really it's bull****. The left foot has not got ownership of lag.

Gravity

Bobby Jones was measured on a 250 to 260 yards drive, accelerating his hands and arms at a rate of just over 34 feet per second, gravity is 32. Didn't lose much lag with a hickory shaft.
 
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