First Move Down

[6bee1dee]

If your feet and legs are good to the top, no sway, braced, solid right leg, then the downswing flows back to the center, see Brian's frisbee throw pics. Brian, I think, feels the left foot bump towards the target and quickly braces into a strong solid post. And duh, the arms aren't looking for a reason to move. They are dropping to the center, low right shoulder, power package intact, hands moving to the left as clubface removes ball from the earth.

If the legs are good to the top, then I think the mid section starts the swing, ie/ belly, hips, and depending if hit or swing, either knee and thigh. Get your penis to the ball then toward the target with hands to the left ear.

 

[McDuff]

I repeat.. most am's bodies outrace thier arms. I doubt many people think foot, knee, hip, side etc when they are throwing a frisbee.

 

[Brian Manzella]

gravity does NOT have to be utilized from the top!!!!!!!

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by McDuff

I repeat.. most am's bodies outrace thier arms. I doubt many people think foot, knee, hip, side etc when they are throwing a frisbee.

Maybe "thinking" is the problem. No one said think, It is what happens. We just think target.

 

[6bee1dee]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

gravity does NOT have to be utilized from the top!!!!!!!

I don't think gravity has much play in my swing, ala bobby Jones. I like a good hard shoulder pull, a rope pull action from the top.

 

[denny.]

Seems like we are talking about two things. What actually moves and what a person may need to "feel " moves to achieve the 3 imperatives.
First educate your hands.......then you are not trying to create positions but rather proper allignments . What a person thinks they are doing are moving matters less than what they actually move.
When you walk what do you move first?
Your head ----you lean forward.

You did't need to know that and you will not walk better because of it.

 

[semipro]

Something happens as I begin the transition that I don't question but it feels like my body is reorienting and getting lower, or sitting down. My feet feel very active as this happens almost like I am repositioning my right foot but I'm not. This "feeling" is something that began happening as I improved to a 2 handicap and began really swinging well within myself.
Another way to describe it is as if I am reorienting my body to stay behind the ball and wait for impact to happen.
Can anyone relate to these sensations? Its hard to describe and one pro told me it was something every pro feels when they finally "get it"

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by jrb15



I'm leery of weighing in on the book's merits. It is obviously a remarkably useful tool in understanding the golfswing. Even unique.
But I get nervous when it starts to sound like religion. It leaves tons of room for a careful biomechanical study that replaces the jargon with more careful anatomical analysis.

As for EdZ's reply. I found it absolutely clear once he expanded on it a bit. I took it to the course today, and it helped me strike the ball more freely, and better, than I have in two months.
Thanks EdZ.

Your welcome.... glad to help.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

quote:Originally posted by McDuff

I repeat.. most am's bodies outrace thier arms. I doubt many people think foot, knee, hip, side etc when they are throwing a frisbee.

Maybe "thinking" is the problem. No one said think, It is what happens. We just think target.

Exactly.

 

[tgmer]

Let me explain my problem:

1. On the start of the downswing, understand to keep the right shoulder down and back, but from the video, I easily use the left side to pull, and just the right shoulder slightly coming out, and I have a heel shot plus the club is coming steeper (not really outside in, may be slightly).

2. Since always want to make the right shoulder coming down first, this is what I did today: at the top of the swing, knowing what the path I want (right shoulder coming down and across), I intentionally use the right shoulder to start the downswing. I feel no power coming from the left side. And, this work.

My question is then is this correct? I am swinging but with this procedure it seems that my right is providing the direction and power, however not really right arm thurst, so is this still swinging.

Confused! Appreciate your comments.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

gravity does NOT have to be utilized from the top!!!!!!!

No, it doesn't have to, but most people will find proper sequence much easier if that have that 'feel'.

Once you understand how to 'build' speed, I agree, gravity doesn't 'have' to be part of the equation.

 

[southpaw]

I try to feel like I'm coming over the top- like I'm gonna pull-slice it.

 

[drewitgolf]

Brian wrote:
"The downswing starts with the left foot."

Brian, are you saying actively (moving your feet with your feet) or passively (responding to other movements)?

 

[6bee1dee]

The more I think about this (now that's dangerous), I feel the downswing or maybe delivery of the power package starts when you cannot go to the right any more. So, start left. If thats a left leg (foot, knee, or thigh) movement or a bump of the hips and the dropping of those highly educated hands, even a sit down, then that's it. Maybe tempo and rhythm start the downswing. Funny, I couldn't fine anything from Mr. Kelley about the downswing.

 

[ej20]

I reckon if you took 10 players of similar build and hypothetically somehow managed to get them swinging identically..then asked them to describe the swing..you will get 10 completely different descriptions.

 

[drewitgolf]

6bee1dee wrote:
"Funny, I couldn't fine anything from Mr. Kelley about the downswing."

Try 2-N-1 Force Vectors. It explains the meaning of Down-Out-Forward.

 

[tgmer]

Somehow I am doing the reverse way for my golf swing rather than suggested by TGM. I worked on my arms and hands first and now back to the pivot.

I understand the importance of programming otherwise as experienced once you on the course it just doesn't work. I can do the arm, rt shoulder straight down etc.. The problem now is when I do the pivot with the left hip first slide than turn, I don't know what my arms were doing. Sometimes intentionally, I can pull my left arm, sometimes I find my right arm putting too much force. Sometimes doing nothing and let the pivot brings the arms and it works, etc.. This make the swing inconsistence.

So, how to start the downswing. I can the the left knee first move, or left hip first bump, but what happen to the left arm, right shoulder, the top area that is holding the shaft. Please help.

 

[cdog]

Whats starts the downswing is probably the most often asked question. I think the important thing is to swing DOWN... the out happens....dont swing OUT, swing Down!!
Get a mirror and put it behind you....go to the top, turn your head and watch yourself swing DOWN.

 

[drewitgolf]

As the left hip slides (bumps), it cause the spine to tilt as your central nervous system tries to remain in balance. Think of the propellor on an airplane. As the bottom of the propellor moves in one direction the top of the propellor moves in the opposite direction arround the hub (both are moving counter-clockwise, just like you are looking a golfer face on). The spine, however, is on an incline angle, not vertical like the propellor. One of Ben Doyle's favorite lines is "sit and tilt". Sitting, keeping your rear end back, allows you to maintain your posture, while tilting brings your right shoulder and forearm on down plane (both reacting), not just down, but down plane. From there hip action (7-15 in TGM) causes the physics of throwout. "Tighten those buns", another Doyle favorite. While this is occurring you still have to keep your mind on your hands otherwise you will have pivot controlled hands when you want just the opposite.
Maintaing club lag is The Secret. The Essence of The Secret (6-C-2-A) Homer has a great line. "If the pivot moves the right shoulder at the same speed as the power package-or the primary lever assembly-the accumulators will not be released by this action until the right elbow can straighten. Even then clubhead lag is still maintained-it has no releaso point".
Moving you hands first without the pivot leads to throwaway in my view.

 

[TYORKE1]

BRIAN ,TOMS has what is seemingly a very passive hand action on the downswing, he bows his left wrist on the way down and has what I am learning axis tilt, my question is does he cauntiously try and keep his left arm attached to his chest and simply rotate the right should down. I have been playing with right shoulder high and low on the downswings and the higher seems more powerful etc MIKESTLOC or the right shoulder low is very consistant and easy to reproduce like TOMS, what are your thoughts because you have worked with both, TIM