Fit swing to clubs or clubs to swing. How do you know which to do?

[danattherock]

So I am reading over at Richie3Jack and run across this very interesting article on club fitting.

Richie3Jack Golf Blog: Ten Tips For Clubfitting


I am 6'6" 290 lbs and for the last ten years or so my clubs have been 1.25" over and 2 deg upright. I read something recently that suggest most pros have more flat lie angles. The article above suggest a tendency for many club fitters to adjust clubs upright as most folks fight a slice. I have never sliced a ball in my life. Faught a hook most of the time. After many swing changes this year, I hit the ball straight or I push it. No hooks and no slices.

So the question I am asking is this. Should I continue modifying my swing to suit my clubs or should I attempt to modify my club specs to better fit my swing. And a preface here, I know very little about proper club fit or the relationship changes to my clubs would have on my ball flight. I can neither confirm nor deny that my club fit is poor. But the article got me wondering. Just how would a mid handicapper like myself determine if the clubs suit the swing (or not). How do you know if your swing is in need of change, or if it is the club specs?

Any comment appreciated.


-Dan

 

[cwdlaw223]

If you want to change your swing then your should change your lie angles. If you don't want to change your swing then keep what you have. 3JACK's tips are very good, however, iron fitting also entails making sure that your irons go into the ground squarely (not toe heavy or heel heavy). What good is it to have flat lie angles if your toe keeps dropping and you hit fat shots???

Find the swing that allows you to have a playable miss and stick with it. (Hard to find with a restless golfing soul that strives for perfection).

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

At 6'6 it's going to be pretty hard to have flat lie angles unless you are REALLLY shallow.

 

[SteveT]

@ danattherock ...!!!!!

At 6'6" and 290lbs, you have a BMI of 33.6 which classifies you as obese.

Unless you are built like a muscled barrel and your fat content is low, your question should be how you can fit your body to a golfswing. One solution is to lose 50-100 lbs. if possible.

Another is to classify your optimal swing as prescribed in LAWs of the Golf Swing by Adams etal. Have you done that?

Perhaps you should post a photo of yourself in your Address stance so we can see what you look like .. because the problem may not be your clubs.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Your current irons are playing about 4.5* upright.

On one hand I would ask what PGA Tour players have ever played clubs that upright (virtually none of them. Scott Hoch was a +4*, Mickelson's were effectively +3* until he changed them). But then again, what tour player is 6'6" tall and 290 lbs.

There was a poster here, can't remember the name, that works with Brian on his swing and said he couldn't get himself to swing left until one day Brian got the idea of having him try a club that was -3* flat and then the Trackman numbers came out like they had been trying to get them to.

I think too flat can be bad for a swing in the long term as well, but it's a bit difficult to determine what is needed for your size. I would probably avoid the extra shaft length because shaft length is really there for yardage gapping.

And it depends on what you are trying to do with your swing. If you have a flatter VSP, then you won't need as upright of a lie angle. If you are trying to get your handle lower at impact, then you will in the end need flatter lie angles.

Myself, I bought some Titleist 690 MB's that were used for $90 and they are pretty much standard specs. Although Titleist standard lie angles are a bit more upright than the rest of the OEM's. But for me, since I'm working on my swing, I'll wait to get fitted until I feel my swing is pretty close to where I want it to be.

I get a lot of golfers who tell me that their swing got worse after they got fitted and almost always they are told to get more upright lies and longer shafts. I just don't think that is a coincidence. At 6'6" tall you're a special situation, but when you see 5'11" golfers with +2* upright shafts and their ballstriking regress....it stops being a coincidence.






3JACK

 

[SteveT]

I get a lot of golfers who tell me that their swing got worse after they got fitted and almost always they are told to get more upright lies and longer shafts. I just don't think that is a coincidence. At 6'6" tall you're a special situation, but when you see 5'11" golfers with +2* upright shafts and their ballstriking regress....it stops being a coincidence.

Obese golfers generally need more upright lie clubs because they must stand more erect to swing around their bellies. You don't want an obese golfer with a blown belly bending over to swing because that would hang their belly out even further. That would be dangerous to their spine if they tried to clear their hips and flinging their belly mass!!!

I'm a svelte 6'3" and 170lbs .. and my clubs are 2º up and extended 1" ... and my swing accommodates those specs. I don't need to aggressively rotate my body to get adequate clubhead speed, and in fact I have slowed down my clubhead speed for consistency. Okay, my distances are down, but I don't lose golf balls any more and I can score effectively.

Fyi .. I can play par on most par 3s and 5s .. it's the par 4s that defeat me due to lack of distance off the tee. I have peaked and accept my game.

Any change to the golfswing or club specs will destabilize the golfer, any golfer.

 

[aaron_lohan]

@ danattherock ...!!!!!

At 6'6" and 290lbs, you have a BMI of 33.6 which classifies you as obese.

Unless you are built like a muscled barrel and your fat content is low, your question should be how you can fit your body to a golfswing. One solution is to lose 50-100 lbs. if possible.

Another is to classify your optimal swing as prescribed in LAWs of the Golf Swing by Adams etal. Have you done that?

Perhaps you should post a photo of yourself in your Address stance so we can see what you look like .. because the problem may not be your clubs.

BMI is a useless measure of obesity, body fat is what you need to look at, BMI takes no account of bone structure and bone density and amount of muscle mass.

 

[Richie3Jack]

BMI is a useless measure of obesity, body fat is what you need to look at, BMI takes no account of bone structure and bone density and amount of muscle mass.

I remember when Evander Holyfield was in his prime he was considered 'obese' by BMI.

If that's obese, then where can I go to get obese?




3JACK

 

[ms1170]

Dan, I hope those tips help. Flatten your huge belly and your irons. Why don't you send some pictures. I'm sure Steve can offer some fashion and grooming tips. Maybe a different hairstyle will do wonders for you.

 

[footwedge]

Obese golfers generally need more upright lie clubs because they must stand more erect to swing around their bellies. You don't want an obese golfer with a blown belly bending over to swing because that would hang their belly out even further. That would be dangerous to their spine if they tried to clear their hips and flinging their belly mass!!!

I'm a svelte 6'3" and 170lbs .. and my clubs are 2º up and extended 1" ... and my swing accommodates those specs. I don't need to aggressively rotate my body to get adequate clubhead speed, and in fact I have slowed down my clubhead speed for consistency. Okay, my distances are down, but I don't lose golf balls any more and I can score effectively.

Fyi .. I can play par on most par 3s and 5s .. it's the par 4s that defeat me due to lack of distance off the tee. I have peaked and accept my game.

Any change to the golfswing or club specs will destabilize the golfer, any golfer.

The reason you were losing balls is because you were playing too many at a time and those whippy shafted ladies clubs are no help as they cause massive timing issues with all that lead at impact, helpful tip #1: use just 1 ball and don't lose it. tip #2 Play stiffer shafts. and tip#3 get your clubs re-fitted to your body type, tall and underweight, or leave them the same and eat more bananas. Hope that helps.

 

[footwedge]

Welcome to the forum Danattherock, ignore Steve T, he is low on fish and bananas and common sense.

 

[greenfree]

Obese golfers generally need more upright lie clubs because they must stand more erect to swing around their bellies. You don't want an obese golfer with a blown belly bending over to swing because that would hang their belly out even further. That would be dangerous to their spine if they tried to clear their hips and flinging their belly mass!!!

I'm a svelte 6'3" and 170lbs .. and my clubs are 2º up and extended 1" ... and my swing accommodates those specs. I don't need to aggressively rotate my body to get adequate clubhead speed, and in fact I have slowed down my clubhead speed for consistency. Okay, my distances are down, but I don't lose golf balls any more and I can score effectively.

Fyi .. I can play par on most par 3s and 5s .. it's the par 4s that defeat me due to lack of distance off the tee. I have peaked and accept my game.

Any change to the golfswing or club specs will destabilize the golfer, any golfer.

Tall, thin and ignorant, you got it all. Your just to intelligent for your own good and of course it's all about you and your game, never mind Dan , oh! i forgot you did offer swing advice, hope that helps Dan. Maybe someone with real swing and clubfitting advice will help you, anyways welcome.

 

[danattherock]

Thanks for the replies fellas. Much to think about. Below is the only video I have of myself and it was from last Dec. I have always been a flipper and sweeper. These faults have been addressed and I have made many swing changes this year. Got a Casio FS10 on the way from Amazon so I can make a before and after video. Working on many things this year and curious how things have changed, but below will show you where I started from.


Swing starts at 22 seconds in (my first time using video)...

Steve, I was 320 last Dec


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGNxsRcBYFw[/media]


-Dan

 

[SteveT]

Below is the only video I have of myself and it was from last Dec. I have always been a flipper and sweeper. These faults have been addressed and I have made many swing changes this year. Got a Casio FS10 on the way from Amazon so I can make a before and after video. Working on many things this year and curious how things have changed, but below will show you where I started from.

Steve, I was 320 last Dec

Good looking swing, Dan .. even if it is a 'before' swing. You look like you pack a lot of muscle, but it's the accumulated fat that will defeat you as you age. Fat doesn't just fill your belly and cripple your core strength, it also marbles your muscles, and that creates friction between the muscle fibers that will weaken you. Thin lean muscles will always beat big bulky muscles filled with fat cells ... even BManz is on a weight reduction kick..!!!

Losing 30 lbs is a good start, but it's the next 30 lbs that will be the challenge because you may have to make a lifestyle change. Do you have a target weight you want to reach ... like maybe 220 lbs?

BTW ... have you read "LAWS of the Golf Swing" by Adams et al .. because it may help you optimize your golf swing to your body type? Then once your determne your swing to your body, you can then determine the best club specs. Don't start from the tail end of your golfswing and then work it back into your body.

(p.s. Don't pay attention to the jealous trolls ... they feel inadequate, impotent too.)

 

[footwedge]

Good looking swing, Dan .. even if it is a 'before' swing. You look like you pack a lot of muscle, but it's the accumulated fat that will defeat you as you age. Fat doesn't just fill your belly and cripple your core strength, it also marbles your muscles, and that creates friction between the muscle fibers that will weaken you. Thin lean muscles will always beat big bulky muscles filled with fat cells ... even BManz is on a weight reduction kick..!!!

Losing 30 lbs is a good start, but it's the next 30 lbs that will be the challenge because you may have to make a lifestyle change. Do you have a target weight you want to reach ... like maybe 220 lbs?

BTW ... have you read "LAWS of the Golf Swing" by Adams et al .. because it may help you optimize your golf swing to your body type? Then once your determne your swing to your body, you can then determine the best club specs. Don't start from the tail end of your golfswing and then work it back into your body.

(p.s. Don't pay attention to the jealous trolls ... they feel inadequate, impotent too.)

There just can't be enough room in that skinny body of yours for you and your ego, or is that ego's?...LOL.

 

[softconsult]

Remarkable, that SteveT continues on the weight rant.

His prior explanation,

"I'm a svelte 6'3" and 170lbs .. and my clubs are 2º up and extended 1" ... and my swing accommodates those specs. I don't need to aggressively rotate my body to get adequate clubhead speed, and in fact I have slowed down my clubhead speed for consistency. Okay, my distances are down, but I don't lose golf balls any more and I can score effectively.

Fyi .. I can play par on most par 3s and 5s .. it's the par 4s that defeat me due to lack of distance off the tee. I have peaked and accept my game.

Any change to the golfswing or club specs will destabilize the golfer, any golfer."

is truly one of the most golf ignorant set of statements I have ever read. I think it translates to
I'm tall and bone thin so I decided to get longer clubs so I use less energy rotating and lose fewer balls
even though I gave up distance. Can't score on Par 4's because he can't drive it far enough. What a strategy!

The last sentence is just laughable. Take any good player and hand him a different spec club. Give him
10 swings at most and they will adapt without becoming destabilized, whatever that is supposed to mean.

I wonder whether SteveT ever watched the Big Break series where the guy called Bigun was a contestant.
300 pounds of pure golf talent.

I too think Dan has a good swing. I'm betting he can bust it.

 

[softconsult]

One more thing for SteveT. You may be interested to know that Brian commented once that he didn't think much of the "LAWS of Golf " book.

 

[natep]

I can say that I'm glad I didn't get my clubs fitted to my swing when I was a 12+ handicapper. My swing has evolved a lot since then.

That being said, if your clubs are ridiculously out of sync with your size, so that you can't even take a level divot, you may want to have someone qualified check them out.

EDIT: Sorry I thought you said you shot in the mid/high eighties. I got this confused with another thread.

 

[danattherock]

High 80's? Yes. Better in fact I suspect. I had been shooting in the low 90's for years until this year. Unfortunately, I don't get to play much. I work on Nantucket and the only public course is $120/round. I play in 2 hours as a single, hard to justify. Most my golf these days is on the practice range. Trying not to give much thought to the score. Went off island this past weekend and played a round on the Cape ($49). Hit some extra balls here and there, two off the tee box at times, didn't keep score. A late afternoon round and I was having fun, practicing, and such. But to answer you question, I do shoot in the high 80's now. You likely read that in the thread I started that got deleted because I mentioned another method of golf instruction.

-Dan

 

[natep]

I understand.

It's hard to tell from the front view what the angle is between your left arm and the clubshaft at address. Do you feel like you have to excessively lift your hands or downcock your wrists at address to get the sole of the club to lay flat?