For Manzella Academy Only - Putting Misery

[blehnhard]

For Brian and Damon -

Having a terrible time putting this spring - finding it difficult to even make 3 in a row straight in up hill putts on the practice green.

Missing 3 to 4 putts a round in the 2' to 4' range per round. Missed a straight in 2' 2'' putt on last hole Sunday. Barely touched the left edge and way too hard.

Misses can be right or left.

Spent some time on the carpet at home the last 2 days. I had been moving the putter back by pushing the handle back with the left hand and then pulling the handle thru. Handle and putter head almost moving the same distance. Putter stayed very low going back.

I feel the LH is the problem. I think that the solution is to feel like I am taking the putter "more up than back" so that gravity can help it fall into the ball. No attempt to move the hands forward - just let the putter fall and the hands react.

Brian made a comment in a thread a while back "to putt like you chip". In chips we need to get the head up so that if can fall into the ball.

Opinions?

Swing is suffering also (nowhere as good as after our lesson last June) - doing something "funny" at the top where I just seem to go up and twist the club closed - some ugly shots result. Going to work on some of the "soft draw" takeaway ideas Brian wrote up earlier today.

Brian are you coming back to Balt. this year?

Glad you are back in your house.

Best,

Bruce

 

[Brian Manzella]

Baltimore Tour Stop

Bruce,

It is my firm belief that it is better to make a backswing in putting that you don't have to SPEED UP to get to the ball.

Make enough backswing to "feel the fall."

I like to swing the putter back and forth—without stopping—and hit several balls lined up in a row.

Same distance back as through.

Baltimore TOUR STOP posted today.

 

[dashfan87]

Bruce,

It is my firm belief that it is better to make a backswing in putting that you don't have to SPEED UP to get to the ball.

Make enough backswing to "feel the fall."

I like to swing the putter back and forth—without stopping—and hit several balls lined up in a row.

Same distance back as through.

Baltimore TOUR STOP posted today.

Im thinking a good model is David Toms?

 

[Damon Lucas]

Are you flinching on the short ones, Bruce?
Sounds like,

1. You need to get the tempo under control. Get the ball rolling to the hole at the same speed everytime, irrespective of makes and misses;
2.(a) Get rid of the pull back/push through feel-this will make it almost impossible to hit the ball where you are aiming,
(b) Left shoulder/left arm/hands all work back together with a gravity fall or a shoulder rock leading the downstroke.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Im thinking a good model is David Toms?

Yes and that is exactly how i putt but there is a con to this method:

Long putts. If you truly use this type of stroke you will have a very long backstroke and through stroke for long putts on slowish greens. This makes impact on the putter a little more erractic.

 

[dashfan87]

Yes and that is exactly how i putt but there is a con to this method:

Long putts. If you truly use this type of stroke you will have a very long backstroke and through stroke for long putts on slowish greens. This makes impact on the putter a little more erractic.

Yeah, for me personally, I treat long puts completely different from short puts... (maybe i shouldn't), but for me, I need to "feel" a long put, more than think "mechanically" about sinking it. All I'm trying to do is get it close enough to tap in my second put, if it goes in... well thats just an added bonus.

Usually (depending on the speed and condition of the greens)from 20 feet out and closer, I'm trying to line it up, and work on my mechanics. any further, and I'm feeling the put. not that I don't "feel" it when I'm closer, but I pay much more attention to my mechanics.

 

[mb6606]

When my putting goes south my mind becomes a problem along with confidence. I go back to basics. I take the time to use an alignment mark on the ball to line up very putt ala Tiger. I choose my hinge either horizontal or vertical. I trust the line. I clear my mind by taking a relaxed breath and go making as simple a stroke as possible.

 

[blehnhard]

Brian, Damon and others

Thanks for the replies.

Damon - I have read up some on GM's putting ideas but attempting to use that method, I still do not seem to get the putter "high" enough off the ground to all for gravity (from the weight of the putter head) to at least have some influence on the forward stroke.

You are correct that I am having some speed issues on shorter putts (inside of 5 feet mostly) and every now and then have a "spasm" putt. Long putts outstide of 10 feet or so or mostly no issue - decent speed control but tend to come up short rather than long.

I can best describe my "bad" short efforts as the "push blast" (hands drive ahead way to hard) or the "soft pull" (hands die before impact and blade closes rapidly.

All comments welcome (from whomever).

Bruce

 

[Erik_K]

Bruce,

It is my firm belief that it is better to make a backswing in putting that you don't have to SPEED UP to get to the ball.

Make enough backswing to "feel the fall."

I like to swing the putter back and forth—without stopping—and hit several balls lined up in a row.

Same distance back as through.

Baltimore TOUR STOP posted today.

Coming back for more, eh?



I hope I can make arrangements for the stop!

 

[puttmad]

Personally I think people get too bogged down with complicated mechanics/swing thoughts, when putting...simplify, simplify...

 

[Damon Lucas]

The HOW and WHY of INSTINCTIVE putting teaches the golfer HOW NOT
to think, WHY NOT to think, and HOW and WHY to use the
non-conscious INSTINCTS instead.

Mmmmmmm....

I am getting through your book, Andrew. Soon!

 

[Ripper]

Brian, Damon and others

Thanks for the replies.

Damon - I have read up some on GM's putting ideas but attempting to use that method, I still do not seem to get the putter "high" enough off the ground to all for gravity (from the weight of the putter head) to at least have some influence on the forward stroke.

You are correct that I am having some speed issues on shorter putts (inside of 5 feet mostly) and every now and then have a "spasm" putt. Long putts outstide of 10 feet or so or mostly no issue - decent speed control but tend to come up short rather than long.

I can best describe my "bad" short efforts as the "push blast" (hands drive ahead way to hard) or the "soft pull" (hands die before impact and blade closes rapidly.

All comments welcome (from whomever).

Bruce

Have you considered a belly putter? I'd be glad to sell you mine!

 

[birdie_man]

The HOW and WHY of INSTINCTIVE putting teaches the golfer HOW NOT
to think, WHY NOT to think, and HOW and WHY to use the
non-conscious INSTINCTS instead.

I always come back to this and I will for a long time. (for execution)

All I know is...good things happen when you are on "auto" eh Damon.

 

[dashfan87]

The HOW and WHY of INSTINCTIVE putting teaches the golfer HOW NOT
to think, WHY NOT to think, and HOW and WHY to use the
non-conscious INSTINCTS instead.

Mmmmmmm....

I am getting through your book, Andrew. Soon!

I think what happens with most golfers is, they try that, they fail at that too (even when they arnt failing as bad as they think) and then they try everything in there power to fix (and they cant) and they get worse, repete cycle over and over till your sergio....

curious.... I have been thinking of going to a belly putter for a few years now, when I decide to make the switch, my putting gets better and I stick with the short stick, because honestly I would rather use the shorty. But, what are your guy's opinion on the belly putter.

 

[Damon Lucas]

My guy around here is Brian, and I think that he is an advocate...

I put my father in one, so that should be a pretty good indicator...

GM allows for the benefits that it provides, but is firmly of the belief that anyone can putt MUCH better with a movement towards certain 'ideals'.

 

[blehnhard]

"The Belly"

Used the Belly off and on for 3 years - sold it last fall. Still had problems with the shortish ones even with the belly.

Did putt well (for me) during Aug - Oct, but "lost" it during the winter. Being almost 66 yrs, I have now forgotten what I was doing during that period.

I have asked for a couple of hours on Monday in Balt. when Brian is there - hope we can work this out - at least an hour on putting and short game.

Bruce

 

[puttmad]

Guys,
the reason most amateurs struggle with putting, is because they never approach the problem/task of distance control, in any disciplined way whatsoever....
Get your distance control sorted out first..any putter wil do... ...hit a load of practice putts one handed if you like (feel, feel, feel)..

Years ago a pro golfer advised me (about my golf swing) "learn to hit it a long way first, then straighten it out. If you do it the other way around you will always be a relatively short hitter."..
With putting it is distance control first, then straighten it out, then you will naturally (and more quickly) learn to read the correct breaks, hence make more putts......but it is a progressive process, not a quick fix

 

[swingobsessed]

Get your distance control sorted out first...

What are the best drills for practicing distance control?

Also, what if you play on multiple courses where the speed of the greens is vastly different?

 

[Erik_K]

I like to practice putting to the fringe for distance control.

 

[puttmad]

To obtain true distance control you need a consitent surface.You are very unlikely to find that on your local putting green (they are always contoured, with no level area of any size)..
Use a carpet at home. If you use the same piece, you will get consitent feedback of what is happening.
basically use a medium pace carpet, (not fast) and simply move your putter back and forth with no stress or force. This will become known as your "core" putt. The ball will always travel roughly the same distance, preferably about 6-7 feet.... practice this putt over and over....
From this starting point you have a solid baseline for all other putts on whatever speed greens you encounter...
Generally my core put will travel 9-10 feet on a normal green, which is perfect.
From the base putt simply experiment with lengthening your backswing to encompass different SET distances, say from 10 to 15 to 20 to 25 etc...these are level putts remember, gradient putts must be adjusted, but even then that adjustment is consistent with gradient, and can be applied to any putt of the same gradient.. Get used to seeing your gradients in a disciplined manner, perhaps cataloging then as steep medium soft etc. and practice learning the adjustments for each...
For example I might find a medium gradient putt of 20 feet requires me to hit it as if it were a 30 foot putt on the level..etc...
How good you get is up to you, but bear this in mind...one putt is equal to a 300 yard drive, it is one stroke and any good round of golf you will use your putter more than any other club in your bag. makes sense to sort it out then...