Governing bodies review of long putters

[birly-shirly]

Royal & Ancient expected to bring forward review of long-handle putter | Sport | The Guardian

Sorry. I really don't get how this serves the interests of the game.

Nobody even remotely questions that drivers and balls have changed the character of the game at the highest level (if not in the lower reaches - except that a modern driver with space age material and design is now considerably more expensive than "classic" clubs ever were "off the shelf").

For this debate, I don't even want to get into whether or not that's been a good thing. But the only really significant equipment rulings that I can remember have been on groove width and profile. For all the hoo-ha around CoR a few years ago, it's not clear that practical, durable drivers could be made with a significantly higher coefficient.

And now we get into the length of a putter shaft, and how you hold it. Can anyone explain to me how either broom handle or belly putters threaten to run away with the game in anything like the way that titanium drivers and 2-piece balls have done.

In fact, other than how it looks, can anyone explain how these putters are changing the game in any respect whatsoever?

Average putts per round on tour in 1980 was a little under 30. Average putts last year was a little over 29. Are we supposed to believe that this improvement is the impact of anchored strokes?

If anchored putters put the rest of the field at a significant disadvantage, I'd understand. But is there any evidence? What I see is mostly people still being able to compete, who might otherwise be lost from the professional game.

Would it have been a much better Open if both Els and Scott had been DQ'd and Tiger, hitting 3 irons off the tee because he doesn't know where his driver is going, had won?

 

[JEREMY5577]

I don't see the harm in limiting the length a little more. Adam Scott has to roll down one of the rear windows in his car and slide it through into the front seat because it wont fit in his trunk. Thats just too long.

 

[ZAP]

I think they really need to decide if the ability to anchor the club to the body is even golf at all. I really do not know if it is a huge advantage to do it that way but is it golf?

 

[ms1170]

[QUOTE
If anchored putters put the rest of the field at a significant disadvantage, I'd understand. But is there any evidence? What I see is mostly people still being able to compete, who might otherwise be lost from the professional game.
[/QUOTE]

It seems to me, that you're saying that there is no significant advantage, and then you describe what the advantage is. Somebody needs to defend the "spirit of the game" I believe that's what they would be doing if they banned anchoring. They have banned other styles of putting, ie., croquet and billiard style. The error in my opinion is they waited too long. It is possible that they didn't ban it at first, because Charlie Owens was black and they were afraid it would look like racial bias. I don't think it's too late to ban anchoring, better late than never I say.

 

[AndyC]

If anchoring a putter provided an advantage you would expect that the top rated putters would all be using that style. Looking at the current list of leaders in strokes gained on the field for the PGA the first name I recognize as someone using a long putter is Carl Petterson in 13th place. I would question whether or not there is actually a problem.

 

[conkanen]

It seems to me, that you're saying that there is no significant advantage, and then you describe what the advantage is. Somebody needs to defend the "spirit of the game" I believe that's what they would be doing if they banned anchoring. They have banned other styles of putting, ie., croquet and billiard style. The error in my opinion is they waited too long. It is possible that they didn't ban it at first, because Charlie Owens was black and they were afraid it would look like racial bias. I don't think it's too late to ban anchoring, better late than never I say.

Exactly everything I wanted to say. Thx

I see both sides of the argument but I hate the damn things.

 

[spktho]

It's great to have a long putter longer than your driver when you get two club lengths relief.

 

[dbl]

B-S,

It's not about length etc it seems. Dawson at the Monday new conference after The Open said the it is not being reviewed for the Rules of Equipment, but for the Rules of Play and Rules of Golf

Well, the initial determination has been that we are examining the subject from a method of stroke standpoint rather than length of putter standpoint, and that takes it into the area of the rules of play, the rules of golf, rather than the rules of equipment. And therefore it's the rules of golf committees of the R&A and the USGA who are looking at this in detail, and then they have to make their recommendations to the boards of each organisation.

From what it has been said the matter relates to definition of Stroke. Now, when I look at that definition, it seems rotation about a coupling point would be in danger, as the definition says the definition is based on the club going forward, and in low speed (if not higher) impacts, parts of the club could be going backwards for very wristy strokes. So, imo, if they are going to modify the definition to exclude anchoring, they also out to tune up the scope of those terms.

For that matter, maybe we can invent a stroke which counts as "zero" against the score by moving 100% of the club backwards...would be handy for being near a tree trunk or rock I suppose.

Stroke Definition:
A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention
of striking at and moving the ball...

Rule 1-1
1-1. General
The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

Sorry about the side issue, but when I hear this putter issue relates to the definition of Stroke, it just doesn't seem like the ROG and Decisions have this important item defined properly.

 

[eric54]

I do hope they are banned. Just not in the spirit of the game imo.

Say i am a pro who struggles with his driving. To solve it I would have to work harder, improve my technique and mind until its solved. If i struggled with my putting i could just get a long/belly putter and anchor it and improve my stroke. Gary Player wants them banned as he rightly says nerves are a part of putting

 

[dbl]

The interviews have also said they are concerned that youngsters who would otherwise be able to putt quite well conventionally, are nonetheless starting out with a belly putter, and they want to prevent that...as an advantage.

Q. And what are the objections from those who object?
PETER DAWSON: The objections I find from those who object at professional level, at elite level, are all about if people have‑‑ and this was the older objection, if people have become failed putters in the conventional way, why should they have a crutch to come back and compete against me when I haven't failed in the conventional way. That's the general argument one hears. But we're also seeing now people who can putt perfectly well in the conventional way thinking that an anchored stroke gives them an advantage. I think that's the fundamental change that we've witnessed in the last couple of years.

So how about an age limit? Have to be 40 or up to use one?

 

[Tony D'Antonio]

Billy Casper anchored his putting stroke against his lead thigh (on short putts for sure). Would that be an illegal stroke if they ban anchored strokes? He claimed that the best stroke is the one with the fewest moving parts and said that the arms and anything else should only move if they have to. That to me is all the long putters do, help you minimize extraneous moving parts but as Casper showed you don't need a long putter to do this (for shorter putts). Hell, you could have a rule that says you can not lock the wrists during a stroke. I think the rule about standing to the side and making some sort of swing is about as far as the rules bodies should go. If you want to pin the club (without some sort of external strap or device) to some part of your body, like your hand (or your chest) then go ahead. And I do agree these putters don't come close to providing the advantage that the new balls and drivers do. My god, drivers and balls these days are so easy to hit it's ri-god-dam-diculous. My two cents.

 

[birly-shirly]

It seems to me, that you're saying that there is no significant advantage, and then you describe what the advantage is. Somebody needs to defend the "spirit of the game" I believe that's what they would be doing if they banned anchoring. They have banned other styles of putting, ie., croquet and billiard style. The error in my opinion is they waited too long. It is possible that they didn't ban it at first, because Charlie Owens was black and they were afraid it would look like racial bias. I don't think it's too late to ban anchoring, better late than never I say.

Not what I intended. Early adopters of titanium drivers and two piece balls were driving the ball significantly further, and probably straighter, than old school holdouts. For the putter length, or the definition of the stroke, to even be an issue, I would argue that you should see someone like Luke Donald or Phil being outputted by someone using the belly putter.

I don't have a vested interest in the issue one way or the other. Personally, I think long putters are fugly - but I don't think anyone, including the R&A/USGA, has a more fundamental objection than just that. Which is a terrible reason for legislation, in my view.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

How many majors have been won by belly/long putters?

 

[Pete J]

How many majors have been won by belly/long putters?

Three of last four?

 

[hp12c]

The only constant is change and it will continue to roll over bulldoze knock he door of the hinges. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cnadon]

As for advantages that old guys rely on, as well as a few others, how about glasses? Get those things off the course and no more of these surgically enhanced . . . lazic patients. I've always thought one putts most of all with the eyes.

 

[Burner]

As for advantages that old guys rely on, as well as a few others, how about glasses? Get those things off the course and no more of these surgically enhanced . . . lazic patients. I've always thought one putts most of all with the eyes.

Has your village posted a missing persons notice yet?

 

[mgranato]

Advantage: How can something be an advantage if it's available to everyone? Are titanium drivers an advantage? The modern rain suit?

Nerves: Ever seen Tim Clark try to close a tournament? Did Adam Scott look nerve proof on the greens trying to close?

Spirit of the Game: The player is responsible to know and play within the rules, period. The "spirit of the game" was upgraded to the "spirit of business" when they began erecting grand stands and selling $8 hot dogs.

It's long over due for the pro tours to have their own set of rules and be governed by their own agencies. PeeWee league football does not play by the same rules as the NFL. Professional football, basketball, and baseball all have different rules and/or equipment restrictions than their amateur versions. The rules should reflect the level of competition, and every other professional sport seems to get this.

A decay of putting skills will eventually effect nearly every golfer. If an amateur feels they can regain some skills, and further extend their active participation (money) in the sport... then by all means, let's make sure we ban a club that's always been legal to use.

 

[ej20]

I think they will ban them just because they look ugly and many of the strokes looks retarded.It affects the whole image of the game.It will have nothing to do with an unfair advantage because everyone can use it.

I can see half the tour using one and some will probably anchor the putter to their foreheads.I will never watch golf or play the game again if that happens.lol

 

[fronesis]

Say i am a pro who struggles with his driving. To solve it I would have to work harder, improve my technique and mind until its solved.

Well, not if you were a pro during a certain era. It is MUCH EASIER to drive the ball straight and long with a 460cc .830 COR titanium driver and a modern ball than it was with a persimmon wood and a balata ball.

I played college golf just before metal drivers took over, and driving was always the weakest part of my game. 20 years later I drive the ball MUCH further and much straighter, and driving is not even close to the weakest part of my game. It is easier to drive the ball today, and driving doesn't separate players quite as much as it once did, all because of the technology.