Hands at Last Parallel

[natep]

Just one thing to keep in mind.

Pro's who sweep release and the amateur sweep release is not always the same.Guys like Watson and Nicklaus still have some acummulator angle when the hands reach the right thigh.They only appear to sweep release when compared to maximum trigger delay guys like Garcia and Charles Howell III.

The handicap player that sweep releases have little to no acummulator angle by the time the hands reaches the right thigh.There is a point where a sweep release just becomes a cast.There are going to be a some players who can play very well doing this but they will be rare.

Yes, I agree. Looking at the film from yesterday I had about 135 degrees of left arm/shaft angle when my hands got to right thigh.

I'd be careful about taking too much from this JN quote. He has been subsequently quoted as explaining that by "release" he means both arms straight.

Yes, I certainly never took this quote as a license to throw it from the top. I dont ever try to cast it, but at the same time I dont try to hold the angle either. I just try to "swoosh" the club as loud as I can through the ball.

Be careful with an "impact hands" type of setup, especially if you feel like you cast it.

Big difference between the pivot stall sweep release versus the sweep release of a Tom Watson as others have stated.

Any time I messed with a forward press type setup, the first thing to move in the downswing and I really had to fight to get my pivot going.

That said...if it's working for you, go for it. Lots of ways to swing it.

I know I've read here before that many here are not fans of "impact hands". I tried it yesterday because for whatever reason I had been subconsciously returning my hands to their setup location at impact. I dont think it affected my swing too much, I was still making a soft draw backswing with the right elbow higher than the left at left arm parallel and was still slightly across the line at the top. I suspect that even though I was setting up with my hands in front of the clubhead, I was lagging it a bit early in the backswing.

Thanks for the replies, guys!

 

[dbl]

I just try to "swoosh" the club as loud as I can through the ball.

If I might suggest...that image/idea may not be working for you. I know when I try that I get an early release. To fix, I'd swing the hands further ahead and then do the various "accumulater" releases. Try the COFF drills of digging divots further and further ahead.

 

[natep]

I dont have the COFF video......perhaps I should look into it.

 

[dbl]

And I would add that that drill is just to begin with, as some other release elements need adding to the coff (IMO).

 

[wulsy]

More carry and flatter arms might help.

 

[ej20]

If I might suggest...that image/idea may not be working for you. I know when I try that I get an early release. To fix, I'd swing the hands further ahead and then do the various "accumulater" releases. Try the COFF drills of digging divots further and further ahead.

Yeah,you want the swoosh to be loudest at full extension at both arms straight....then you know you have lagged it well.

I think it's just another illusion though.One might equate the loudest swoosh past impact as maximum clubhead speed past impact but it's another one of those feel aint real deals.By the the time the swoosh registers in your brain(which does take a small amount of time),the event has already happened a split second earlier.If you hear the swoosh loudest at impact then you have released way too early.That's my story anyway and I'm sticking to it.

 

[natep]

Here's a slow motion downswing, sorry I dont have high speed camera.

Is this a cast? This is from after I tried the "impact hands".

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyybHPVWl08[/media]

 

[dbl]

Your left wrist is flat at the top and bent at the bottom (seen that in this and other pics). So...

(And, not sure, but I think the collapsing right leg near impact is an attempt to get the left shoulder higher...)

 

[duckhook]

natep
It is a clear case of club head throw away. Your club head passed your hands way before impact. You are throwing away the #3PP. Next time out try to maintain that #3PP all way through to the finish. Then try a few shots where you purposely throw the #3PP away. feel the difference between right and wrong.

 

[duckhook]

All great golfers ,on normal shots, at impact, have either a straight line relationship between the left shoulder and the club shaft (Jack Nicklaus) or the club shaft has some forward lean (Ben Hogan). Assume at the top of the backswing the angle between clubshaft and the lead arm is 90 degrees and at impact it's 180 degrees. So from the top to impact there has to be a change of 90 degrees. The rate at which the golfer decides to go from 90 degrees to 180 degrees at impact determines the type of release to be used. If right from the beginning of the down swing the golfer starts increasing that angle he better increase it at a slow steady rate (sweep type release). If on the other hand the golfer holds that 90 degrees DEEP into the downswing then the rate of angular change has to be much quicker (snap release). If the rate of angular change is perfect then both golfers will end up with that straight line relationship at impact. In that case both golfers had perfect timing ie: each had a perfect rate of angular change. The snap releaser on video will show that 90 degree relationship between lead arm and clubshaft well into the downswing (hands around the right thigh area) where as the sweep releaser , by the time his hands reach the right thigh area, has an angle maybe around 120 degrees. This however does not mean the sweep releaser has thrown the club away NOR does it mean that he has developed a power leak compared to the snap releaser.Neither golfer has an advantage in power based on the angle at thigh high.
One has a slower angular rate of change over a longer period of time where as the other has a faster rate of change over a shorter period of time. Chose your poison but I like the steady sweep release rather than the quick snap release. Neither throws the club away however since at impact the straight line relationship is in tact. They just got there in different ways. Now some physics scholars will probably pick this explanation apart but I think it explains it in a non technical way that most can understand.
For the sweep releaser
It is IMPOSSIBLE to throw the club away (clubhead passing hands at impact) as long as you maintain that number 3 pressure point from the top of the backswing to the finish

 

[ej20]

Here's a slow motion downswing, sorry I dont have high speed camera.

Is this a cast? This is from after I tried the "impact hands".

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyybHPVWl08[/media]

I suggest you invest in a Casio.In this video,not only is there less than 2 frames from last parallel to impact,the shaft is not even visible due to motion blur.How anyone can tell whether the hands have passed the clubhead at impact is a guess as impact is not even captured.

 

[natep]

I've been considering a better camera. Does anyone know what the minimum threshold of FPS or shutter speed is required to capture a golf swing adequately? I'll probably be looking for the least expensive, not the best.

 

[ZAP]

I've been considering a better camera. Does anyone know what the minimum threshold of FPS or shutter speed is required to capture a golf swing adequately? I'll probably be looking for the least expensive, not the best.

It is better if you just get one of the Casio models recommended. For the price of a new driver you will have a valuable tool. Mine has me wishing I would have bought it a year ago.

 

[natep]

No doubt about that. I just cant afford it at the moment. Perhaps I'll just wait and get the Casio later on.