Henry Griffitts and TGM

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN


Also a lot of guys cant stomach playing with a small name brand club that works, their image and ego wants a taylor made or titleist that is misfitted as their fitting systems are a token selling jesture, as you cant fit clubs with 12 options in your cart that are really all about the same. Some guys try to fit other brands off of the system and this dosent work, its like test driving a BMW and telling the customer the Passat will work just as good for half the price.

Unfortunately, that's the case for me too -- my ego won't let me play with 'small name brand' clubs -- even if I can perform better with them! I ask myself, "if the pros aren't HG fit but can hit 300 yard drives on the fairway 63% of the time on Championship Golf Courses, then why can't I?" (because I ain't pro, but that's not my point )

 

[craig]

Tongzilla, you are too smart a g.o.l.f. guy to let youre ego get in the way, come on man let Kenny fit you and you never go back to the marketing dogs, ponies and circus acts like moveable weights in R7 that have no real effect on ball flight.

The pros have been fit by HG : Spencer Levin, Christina Kim, Peter Jacobson, Scott McCarron, Homero Blancas and many more.

The pros can be fitt same as HG by experimenting with their own brands and having them built the same way by tour vans. This takes a long time and is not availible to the general public. Therefore HG is the best as the public can have the same benefits as pros and the public as mentioned in a previous post need it more than pros. Dr Frank Thomas made the most ignorant statement at European Teaching Conference 2003 Munich Germany not backed up by any facts 'that only 5 handicappers or below will benefit from clubfitting'. This is untrue as pros are talented enough to adjust for misfit club components and hackers need all components in their favour to aid minimising their throw.

HG is like TGM unless you really experience it and understand it for yourself there are many misunderstandings of what it is and how much it can really help people. I URGE EVERYONE TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES AND EXPERIENCE HG FITTING THEN MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION ON ITS MERITS.

 

[craig]

I play HG and Steve(4barrels) fitted me,I am a 9 handicap working on it coming down.
I pick up other Taylor and Titleists that my friends use and cant hit them until I adjust my procedure to load store release to match the club. I guess I have been spoilt in using correctly fitted clubs and the diffeence is so obvious to me when I go back to ill fitted clubs.

 

[hue]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN


Also a lot of guys cant stomach playing with a small name brand club that works, their image and ego wants a taylor made or titleist that is misfitted as their fitting systems are a token selling jesture, as you cant fit clubs with 12 options in your cart that are really all about the same. Some guys try to fit other brands off of the system and this dosent work, its like test driving a BMW and telling the customer the Passat will work just as good for half the price.

Unfortunately, that's the case for me too -- my ego won't let me play with 'small name brand' clubs -- even if I can perform better with them! I ask myself, "if the pros aren't HG fit but can hit 300 yard drives on the fairway 63% of the time on Championship Golf Courses, then why can't I?" (because I ain't pro, but that's not my point )

Leo : I got my clubs fitted at

www.precisiongolf.co.uk

who are IMHO the best clubfitters in the country.( I don't think they have HG in the UK) My playing partner and I were about the same length when he got fitted he was hitting it about 25 yards past me . I went for a fitting and my driver generated too much spin at my higher speeds 110MPH and the state of the art Flightscope monitor they use showed that I would get more distance at 103 MPH with the driver (R7 TP 10.5*). They said the loft and shaft was all wrong for me and I had them build a driver for me (R7 TP 9.5* with their shaft recommendation) . I tested both drivers against eachother and hit the new one about 25 yards past my old one. The launch monitor showed my spin rates dropped from 4500 to 3100. They use Hotstix software and build clubs for Pros. They did the fitting for Sonartec at the PGA Championships at Wentworth.
You generate way above normal clubhead speed and retail equipment is not designed to cope with what you put on it. They are the UK Miura dealers. I know you are looking for a set of blades with no offset.The Miura irons are the best sticks out there IMO. I suggest you go for a no obligation fitting. They will tell you which driver heads ,lofts and shafts would suit you. It is a real eye opener. Simon the fitter is a Europro player with a great swing . He gets it up to 127 MPH on the monitor my guess is that your SS is about 115. I suggest you get custom fitted and use the recommendations to source some Tour Issue heads from Ebay or http://www.bombsquadgolf.com/ and get them to build you the clubs with their shaft recommendations . SST Puring is part of the service.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by Pro

I would much rather fit a club to the motion the student is making and get the result the student should get with that motion

Since a developmental student changes his motion, just how is it that this initial fine-tuned fitting now "fits" his new, improved motion?

Bottom line - it's sufficient to statically fit a developmental player for club length and lies. 99.99% of players can be properly served by R, S, or X shafts. ALL THAT can be done with off the shelf clubs or by modifying the player's existing set. This HG fitting of students is money he doesn't need to be spending.

 

[Pro]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by Pro

I would much rather fit a club to the motion the student is making and get the result the student should get with that motion

Since a developmental student changes his motion, just how is it that this initial fine-tuned fitting now "fits" his new, improved motion?

Bottom line - it's sufficient to statically fit a developmental player for club length and lies. 99.99% of players can be properly served by R, S, or X shafts. ALL THAT can be done with off the shelf clubs or by modifying the player's existing set. This HG fitting of students is money he doesn't need to be spending.

MJ,
When I say the club fits the motion it means the resulting ball flight will not go towards the intended target, if plane line is closed, clubface under control, ball will go left, as plane line control improves, ball flight relative to intended target line improves. The point being I will very rarely fix ball flight with the club only unless club is so bad that proper motion is inhibited!
H-G's are expensive, but they have the best fitting cart, the best quality control, the best warranty program, and the best fitting teachers, of the ones I have met!!
I don't know about you, but some of my developmental students motions don't change that much, get more structure, get more precise, get more knowledge of their stroke pattern, a few components may change but I still recognize their swing from two fairways away!!!

Todd

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by hue

)
Leo : I got my clubs fitted at

www.precisiongolf.co.uk

who are IMHO the best clubfitters in the country.( I don't think they have HG in the UK) My playing partner and I were about the same length when he got fitted he was hitting it about 25 yards past me . I went for a fitting and my driver generated too much spin at my higher speeds 110MPH and the state of the art Flightscope monitor they use showed that I would get more distance at 103 MPH with the driver (R7 TP 10.5*). They said the loft and shaft was all wrong for me and I had them build a driver for me (R7 TP 9.5* with their shaft recommendation) . I tested both drivers against eachother and hit the new one about 25 yards past my old one. The launch monitor showed my spin rates dropped from 4500 to 3100. They use Hotstix software and build clubs for Pros. They did the fitting for Sonartec at the PGA Championships at Wentworth.
You generate way above normal clubhead speed and retail equipment is not designed to cope with what you put on it. They are the UK Miura dealers. I know you are looking for a set of blades with no offset.The Miura irons are the best sticks out there IMO. I suggest you go for a no obligation fitting. They will tell you which driver heads ,lofts and shafts would suit you. It is a real eye opener. Simon the fitter is a Europro player with a great swing . He gets it up to 127 MPH on the monitor my guess is that your SS is about 115. I suggest you get custom fitted and use the recommendations to source some Tour Issue heads from Ebay or http://www.bombsquadgolf.com/ and get them to build you the clubs with their shaft recommendations . SST Puring is part of the service.

Thanks for the info Hue. I will check it out. Hope they have a center near London. I like the fact that they can fit you into different brand clubs. You think Tour Issue heads really make that much of a difference?

 

[bantamben1]

the moral of the story go to an hg fitter because of the options they have. get fit get the specs and then if you dont like the clubs give him something for his time and go buy some other titleist etcc.. and have them fit to those specs. fitting is very important this way my specs are about 3 degrees upright in the short irons if i play a wedge that is standard i will hit my first shot 20 feet right of the pin in the next couple of shots sure i can componsate with my swing without changing my stance and start getting it going at the pin again but I try to avoid compensations. if your gonna get fit lie to me is the most important

 

[hue]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla
I will check it out. Hope they have a center near London. I like the fact that they can fit you into different brand clubs. You think Tour Issue heads really make that much of a difference?

Leo: Precisiongolf is based in Egham not too far from Heathrow on Exit 13 on the M25. Re Tour Issue clubs making a difference IMO in MOST cases yes. I used to get clubs from a European Tour player ( He has lost his card) and have tested them head to head against the retail stuff( Mainly TaylorMade stuff). My playing partner is an equipment junkie and he would test them also. You find the sound and feel is slightly different and the ball flight is more penetrating. My R7 TP is Tour Issue and I have tested against a retail R7 TP with same set up. There was a huge difference. My R7 15* Tour Issue is much better than the retail version. . On a couple of occasions I have also hit Miura made Tour Issue TM irons and they feel way softer and better than the retail versions. The Miuras just have a fantastic feel. This thread will be of interest to you

http://www.bombsquadgolf.com/invboa...7b785040f214f596c750a5169e071&showtopic=56715

Once you get fitted and know what you want get in touch as I have got good contacts where I can source the Tour Issue stuff at reasonable prices. We will have to meet up some time and maybe you can test my Tour issue R7 TP driver and 3 wood against the retail versons at a range and see for yourself. Simon recommended in my case staying away from the big 460 cc drivers as these TEND to generate a lot of spin. I have a hunch you generate a lot of spin also.

 

[pluthb]

Catching this a bit late but I too am a HG fitter but our facility has choose not to conduct fitting so I outsource all my serious players that want to learn how to play to get fit by someone I trust. I too advocate HG and I've been certified to fit Titleist, Ping, Taylor Made etc. and HG is by far and away the best fitting system for the teacher and the student. 4Barrel, do you have the stats as far as how many feet you have to compensate for being off 1 degree with a driver, 5iron and a wedge. This is scientific stuff that can't be argued, I just don't have my data near by.
If you don't have fitted clubs you're really not that serious about playing your best golf.
Merry Christmas.

 

[Steve Khatib]

Brad, off the top of my head its 4deg too flat or too upright for 100 yard 9 iron shot will result in a 22yard miss to the right or left: and then there are the swing compensations that the player might then develop for this eg quitting or steering and or both!
Merry Xmas Brad gee it must be cold in your neck of the woods now? Just to let you know in Melbourne it was 35deg cent. yesterday hot stuff!

 

[Steve Khatib]

Before I get the nae sayer I just want to say as a teacher/fitter I often see clubs where the lie andle is 4 deg out, this is either a length or just plain lie angle problem or both. But ofcourse fitting must relate back to your teaching style. For example non TGM Hg fitters who teach steering and 2 dimensional position golf swings will tend to fitt short and upright lie angles where as a majority of my students will fitt in to flatter lie angles with slightly longer clubs, as I teach 3 dimensional alignment not position based motions.

 

[bantamben1]

just remember also if a player loses his tush line and increases his spine angle from a down the line shot his irons will always need to be more upright than a player who stays in his posture if they where the same stature
'Golf the Scientific Way' (1995) includes an article by Carl Scheie of Wilson that gives the information I think you're looking for in a table headed 'Direction Deviation due to a Change in Lie Angle'.

I don't think it's possible to reproduce the formatting here, but the figures are below, for a 2º lie angle change, in this order:

Club #, Club Loft in degrees, Dispersion Angle Change (in degrees), Typical Shot Distance (in Yards), Spread (Dispersion - in Feet):

#1, 17º, 0.6º, 215 yds, 7 feet.
#2, 19º, 0.7º, 205, 7
#3, 22º, 0.8º, 195, 8
#4, 25º, 0.9º, 185, 8
#5, 28º, 1.0º, 175, 9
#6, 32º, 1.1º, 162, 9
#7, 36º, 1.3º, 148, 10
#8, 40º, 1.4º, 135, 10
#9, 44º, 1.5º, 122, 10
PW, 48º, 1.7º, 110, 10
SW, 53º, 1.8º, 85, 8
LW, 58º, 2.0º, 60, 6

re.

 

[pluthb]

Thanks guys, this is the info that the golfing public needs to know before buying clubs off the rack. 4-barrel, was that 22 yards or 22 feet/meters. No wonder why there are so many flippers, to use one of Manzella's terms, hope I'm not bastardizing any of your material...

 

[Steve Khatib]

Sorry, Brad my error it was 22 feet not 22 yards.

 

[pluthb]

7+ yards is still aiming at the left or right side of the green to hit it in the middle. Precision in... precision out and it all starts with the clubs!

 

[robertrex]

quote:Originally posted by Pro

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by Pro

I would much rather fit a club to the motion the student is making and get the result the student should get with that motion

Since a developmental student changes his motion, just how is it that this initial fine-tuned fitting now "fits" his new, improved motion?

Bottom line - it's sufficient to statically fit a developmental player for club length and lies. 99.99% of players can be properly served by R, S, or X shafts. ALL THAT can be done with off the shelf clubs or by modifying the player's existing set. This HG fitting of students is money he doesn't need to be spending.

MJ,
When I say the club fits the motion it means the resulting ball flight will not go towards the intended target, if plane line is closed, clubface under control, ball will go left, as plane line control improves, ball flight relative to intended target line improves. The point being I will very rarely fix ball flight with the club only unless club is so bad that proper motion is inhibited!
H-G's are expensive, but they have the best fitting cart, the best quality control, the best warranty program, and the best fitting teachers, of the ones I have met!!
I don't know about you, but some of my developmental students motions don't change that much, get more structure, get more precise, get more knowledge of their stroke pattern, a few components may change but I still recognize their swing from two fairways away!!!

Todd

Todd - you saying you can only recognize my swing from 2 fariways away.

I like the idea of fitting the club so that ballflight matches pattern.