gmbtempe
New
last years were 116 els and 112 furyik. Getting old sucks.
Hinge Action, Rate of Closure, and what you SHOULD do with the clubface (p9 pic)
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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last years were 116 els and 112 furyik. Getting old sucks.
Furyk has a driver swing speed this year of 104-112 mph. Els has 104-116.
PGATOUR.com - PGA TOUR Statistics
PGATOUR.com - PGA TOUR Statistics
I don't believe there is an average on the site I posted. Only high and low. However, you can see a lot of variance between the pros on max and min speeds. The top 10 guys have incredible top end speed.
gmbtempe
New
I wonder if Cheetham can confirm that Furyk's 900 d/s axial velocity is shut to open?
You say that in jest but I would love to get the most accurate data on how the clubface is working, I know I may be weird but to me its just interesting for a engineering/physics standpoint.
Michael Finney
New
No offense, but what in THE hell do you think we're trying to do?
Your boys are using a casio, youtube, a protractor, v1 software, and keen observation skills.....
We're talking to mackenzie, wood, dee, bentley, neal, tuxen, duffey, and wright.....we're working our asses off so we aren't guessing, estimating, conclusion jumping.....what more can we say?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Today, on the phone and emails with several of the game's brightest minds....
The rate of closure theory is falling to pieces.....
Just a look....
No proof.
If you do reduce it, you have to INTRODUCE other, more variable components to make up for it.
If you had a TrackMan you wouldn't spend ONE SECOND on it.
If the face is closing too much through impact, close it less. If it is coming in too open, close it.
The rate of closure theory is falling to pieces.....
Just a look....
No proof.
If you do reduce it, you have to INTRODUCE other, more variable components to make up for it.
If you had a TrackMan you wouldn't spend ONE SECOND on it.
If the face is closing too much through impact, close it less. If it is coming in too open, close it.
Lindsey Newman
New
dschultz6072
New
I get a lot of weird scoffs on the range when I tell people I use my hands. A lot of hands. Even Harvey Penick didn't buy into the "hands just hold onto the club" nonsense. Where else does the speed come from?
birly-shirly
New
What's the argument here? That there's insufficient evidence for "rate of closure" being an important variable? Or that there's evidence that the "rate of closure" theory is actually wrong?
Any chance of a fuller explanation?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Birly....
Today, 10 FACTS of Face Closure....
1. Clubface rotation rate is increasing from last parallel to the ball.
Today, 10 FACTS of Face Closure....
1. Clubface rotation rate is increasing from last parallel to the ball.
birly-shirly
New
Makes sense. As you said in your video, increased clubhead speed would tend towards increased rate of rotation.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Well, it is important because the uninformed out there think you can make the rotation SLOW pre-impact.
Amen! No way that the rate slows down after the last parallel.
gmbtempe
New
I don't have boys....well I have a boy and a girl but thats another story.
The difference is I try to use all the information that is out there and come to my own conclusion, and I really don't care if it comes from this site or another. I have no blind allegiance to anything despite your early "book literalist" claims of me.
If there is something you have stated I think is wrong I say so but rarely (and I would challenge you to prove otherwise) have been critical of any of the testing numbers you have provided, even if I think something is out of whack, because its just more information.
mgranato
New
They think they can do a lot of things.
gmbtempe
New
8th grade physics would have educated anyone enough to know this.
The bigger question is there better club paths, hand paths, grips, pivot and leg movements, wrist positions, etc. that would allow it to accelerate at a slower speed thus affecting the rate?
At its simplest level lets take two golfers, Phil Mickelson and David Duval. Both were/are great players but have very different ways that they swing the club. They both can get the club face on the ball at the highest level in the world with swing paths that are very consistant but why was Duval one of the great ball strikers while Phil was wildly inconsistent. I don't believe it was a talent thing.
I see no reason why researching the why's to questions like this is somehow not a worthwhile exercise.
Is there a material and mangeable difference in closing rates? So far, not sure. My guess is unlikely. If you "hold off" from releasing and the closing rate is 2,700 and you swing as hard as you can and the rate is 2,900, I'm not sure that is a material and mangeable difference.
I believe it is a talent thing and your rate is your rate. How you control the rate might be different, but just slowing the rate down won't make you more consistent unless you slow it down a ton to get better "face control." The key is working with the rate that you have. That's the hard part instead of slowing the rate down. If someone could maintain the same swing speed and slow their rate date then there might be something. (Note sure anybody has real and verifiable evidence of this phenomenon). But there's a direct correlation between increased speed and increased rates. Sort of like friction generating heat. More friction = more heat.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Junk Science.
Ohhhh lookee here....video....overhead....ooooooh.
I talked to a real scientist from a golf lab at a major university yesterday, and he blew to sky high, any attempt to see rate of closure on 2D video.
Might as well just guess by looking at the ball.
All the scientists I talked to yesterday, DESTROYED the theory.
I love learning.
Ohhhh lookee here....video....overhead....ooooooh.
I talked to a real scientist from a golf lab at a major university yesterday, and he blew to sky high, any attempt to see rate of closure on 2D video.
Might as well just guess by looking at the ball.
All the scientists I talked to yesterday, DESTROYED the theory.
I love learning.
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