Hitting and swinging at the same time?

[Brian Manzella]

Jeff,

Dr. Zick was asked 100 questions just like yours and, in the end, he blew them all up.

He is a physicist.

Are you?

 

[savydan]

How about the first foot of the backswing?

As the clubhead rises and also moves to the right, is the force applied along the shaft, or across the shaft?

 

[niblick1]

Of course one can apply a push force across the shaft and a pull force along the shaft at the same time. However, I cannot envisage that a good golfer can successfully coordinate these two forces in a single golf swing motion.

Right, imagining using both your left arm and right arm simultaneously to complete an athletic motion to maximize power is almost impossible to imagine.

Here's the part I can't understand. how anyone who has ever tried to hit the *&*(&) out of golf ball as far as they can possibly hit it, taken their 7-iron and three buckets of balls to see what's the farthest they can hit it, and paid even a little bit of attention to what is going on with the forces being applied could even imagine that there aren't all kinds of pushing and pulling actions going on at once. Why would someone tend to believe that using one side exclusively is better than using both sides at once? Would someone even argue that Mickey Mantle or Henry Aaron either just pulled or pushed to hit home runs? I think it would make you giggle if a person did claim such a thing.

 

[Zztop]

Right, imagining using both your left arm and right arm simultaneously to complete an athletic motion to maximize power is almost impossible to imagine.

Here's the part I can't understand. how anyone who has ever tried to hit the *&*(&) out of golf ball as far as they can possibly hit it, taken their 7-iron and three buckets of balls to see what's the farthest they can hit it, and paid even a little bit of attention to what is going on with the forces being applied could even imagine that there aren't all kinds of pushing and pulling actions going on at once. Why would someone tend to believe that using one side exclusively is better than using both sides at once? Would someone even argue that Mickey Mantle or Henry Aaron either just pulled or pushed to hit home runs? I think it would make you giggle if a person did claim such a thing.

If you did believe that , you could just use one arm, you pick! Oh yeah no pivoting allowed and no chewing gum at the same time did i hear a giggle?

 

[JeffM]

Jeff,

Dr. Zick was asked 100 questions just like yours and, in the end, he blew them all up.

He is a physicist.

Are you?

That's not a rational argument. That's trying to win an argument based on the "authority" of an "expert's opinion" - the idea that if an "expert" states that something is "right" then it must be "right". If you find Dr. Zick's explanation extremely plausible, then you should be able to put his opinions into a "prose explanation". That will allow forum members to judge the merits of the "prose explanation" on its own terms - whether the explanation is logically coherent, and 100% compatible with known golf mechanics/physics (and not whether it was expounded by a "physicist" or some other "expert").

Jeff.

 

[JeffM]

Right, imagining using both your left arm and right arm simultaneously to complete an athletic motion to maximize power is almost impossible to imagine.

Here's the part I can't understand. how anyone who has ever tried to hit the *&*(&) out of golf ball as far as they can possibly hit it, taken their 7-iron and three buckets of balls to see what's the farthest they can hit it, and paid even a little bit of attention to what is going on with the forces being applied could even imagine that there aren't all kinds of pushing and pulling actions going on at once. Why would someone tend to believe that using one side exclusively is better than using both sides at once? Would someone even argue that Mickey Mantle or Henry Aaron either just pulled or pushed to hit home runs? I think it would make you giggle if a person did claim such a thing.

Your argument is very weak in my opinion. The issue is not whether there is a lot of pushing/pulling going on when trying to hit a golf ball as far as possible. The issue is whether there can be a lot of pulling/pushing going on when one wants to hit the ball far and straight towards a distant target. In her golf instructional book, Annika Sorenstam stated that she tries to swing at a level of 6 on a scale of 1-10 when using a driver. Why? The answer is related to the fact that she wants to land on the ball on the fairway and not off the fairway (in the rough).

There is a major difference between baseball and golf. One can hit a home run with a large variation in ball directional qualitities. However, golf is a target-based game. That means that a golfer needs to maximise control of the clubshaft, clubhead and clubface - so that he can hit the ball straight. Homer Kelley implied that one could either be a swinger (who uses drag loading) or a hitter (who uses drive loading). If you believe that one can utilize drag loading and drive loading at the same time, then please present a detailed explanation of the involved biomechanics/mechanics. I would study your explanation with a great deal of careful thought.

Jeff.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Homer Kelley implied that one could either be a swinger (who uses drag loading) or a hitter (who uses drive loading). If you believe that one can utilize drag loading and drive loading at the same time, then please present a detailed explanation of the involved biomechanics/mechanics. I would study your explanation with a great deal of careful thought.

Jeff.

Maybe you should become authorized (if u aren't already) and go to a TGM Summit and watch Dr. Zick present. Maybe that will do it for you otherwise i don't know what to tell you.

 

[Zztop]

That's not a rational argument. That's trying to win an argument based on the "authority" of an "expert's opinion" - the idea that if an "expert" states that something is "right" then it must be "right". If you find Dr. Zick's explanation extremely plausible, then you should be able to put his opinions into a "prose explanation". That will allow forum members to judge the merits of the "prose explanation" on its own terms - whether the explanation is logically coherent, and 100% compatible with known golf mechanics/physics (and not whether it was expounded by a "physicist" or some other "expert").

Jeff.

That's funny you want an expert opinion, but just as long as it's not from an expert! That's the best i've heard in a long time, bravo, well done! Who knew you were that smart?
By the way what's the Law of the Fail Theory ,i mean Flail theory? Of course tell us, in your expert opinion, please, i just know it'll be 100% compatible with known golf mechanics/ physics, whatever that means

 

[Brian Manzella]

I am teaching today—in the rain—on Long Island.

This thread will be locked until tonight.

As far as my "rational argument" Jeff Mann....

I'll spend some time and blow you up again.

Don't you worry.