"I feel like I never move my hands"

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D

diggerdog

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saith Ben Doyle, and he's right. Right forearm pickup has been invaluable to help me locate that place in space the clubshaft must get to, but once I know where it mut go, I let me pivot get it there.

"Look, look, look. Oh, oh, I see. The pivot loads the right arm."

Ben Doyle tape #66
 
D

DDL

New
Such thing as a half and half ? Ever since I have been practicing taking my hands up in a straight line, I have been conscious of both my pivot( my right hip rotating back and towards the target, and my right leg straightening) and my hands and right elbow.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Here's a hybrid. From the top, slide the left hip over the left foot while driving the palm-down left hand toward an aiming point outside the right foot. Then, keeping the right shoulder back, rotate around the left leg, which takes the dead hands through impact.
 
6

6bee1dee

New
Here is a post of mind from sept 6 of this year:

Three schools of thought about “hand control.”
1- WRONG- the hands and arms swing to the ball and the pivot moves. Flick school. Some TGMers cower to this because they fear the they might break the adage of having a pivot controlled swing.
2- Ben Doyle school of thought. This is the way I swung for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it. Ben like to say. “The pivot does ALL the work. ALL the work. This a fine swing. Ben likes to get to the top, let the body, the pivot, move the hands down into the hitting area by lowering the right shoulder, keeping the club on plane. Ben is always on plane. Moving the hands into the impact area and snapping his hips and hinny into the ball. Snap release, pivot doing all the work like a car transporter move cars on the highway. This is hand control because the hands are calling the moves.
3- This is the manner I swing today, enlightened by Yoda. The pivot does the work - just not all of it. The pivot just does what it is designated to do. The pivot starts the hands down like a big wheeler needing a few lower gears to move from a dead stop. The pivot kinda takes up the “slack” at the top, if you can pictured that in your head.
Once the pivot, body and hands are all in motion, the pivot just keeps moving to stay in rhythm with the arms, but the hands are violently heading into impact. Educated hands controlling a well “rhythmed” machine. I hit the ball a ton now. Of course it was more to it then getting re-pivoted. Yoda works wonders - even with AIs.

To baseball: I teach my son to step and throw the ball, body moves the arm throws. The body was no idea where the ball will go, but the arm does. Hitting, waiting for the pitch is like being at top. See the ball, move leg, hips rotate pulls shoulders (takes up the "slack") and the arms fire. The body moves but the arms and hands control the bat.


I still feel that way about it.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

Here is a post of mind from sept 6 of this year:

Three schools of thought about “hand control.”
1- WRONG- the hands and arms swing to the ball and the pivot moves. Flick school. Some TGMers cower to this because they fear the they might break the adage of having a pivot controlled swing.
2- Ben Doyle school of thought. This is the way I swung for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it. Ben like to say. “The pivot does ALL the work. ALL the work. This a fine swing. Ben likes to get to the top, let the body, the pivot, move the hands down into the hitting area by lowering the right shoulder, keeping the club on plane. Ben is always on plane. Moving the hands into the impact area and snapping his hips and hinny into the ball. Snap release, pivot doing all the work like a car transporter move cars on the highway. This is hand control because the hands are calling the moves.
3- This is the manner I swing today, enlightened by Yoda. The pivot does the work - just not all of it. The pivot just does what it is designated to do. The pivot starts the hands down like a big wheeler needing a few lower gears to move from a dead stop. The pivot kinda takes up the “slack” at the top, if you can pictured that in your head.
Once the pivot, body and hands are all in motion, the pivot just keeps moving to stay in rhythm with the arms, but the hands are violently heading into impact. Educated hands controlling a well “rhythmed” machine. I hit the ball a ton now. Of course it was more to it then getting re-pivoted. Yoda works wonders - even with AIs.

To baseball: I teach my son to step and throw the ball, body moves the arm throws. The body was no idea where the ball will go, but the arm does. Hitting, waiting for the pitch is like being at top. See the ball, move leg, hips rotate pulls shoulders (takes up the "slack") and the arms fire. The body moves but the arms and hands control the bat.


I still feel that way about it.
Click to expand...

6B,

Have you found any authority in the book for this?
 
G

galopin

New
Bob,

The phrase you highlighted is how Ben Doyle teaches Hip Action. Keep in mind that Ben teaches a Swing stroke and it's this action of the hips that a Swinger utilizes to release Accumulators 1, 2, and 3.

See 2-K.
 
W

wanole

New
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

Here is a post of mind from sept 6 of this year:

Three schools of thought about “hand control.”
1- WRONG- the hands and arms swing to the ball and the pivot moves. Flick school. Some TGMers cower to this because they fear the they might break the adage of having a pivot controlled swing.
2- Ben Doyle school of thought. This is the way I swung for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it. Ben like to say. “The pivot does ALL the work. ALL the work. This a fine swing. Ben likes to get to the top, let the body, the pivot, move the hands down into the hitting area by lowering the right shoulder, keeping the club on plane. Ben is always on plane. Moving the hands into the impact area and snapping his hips and hinny into the ball. Snap release, pivot doing all the work like a car transporter move cars on the highway. This is hand control because the hands are calling the moves.
3- This is the manner I swing today, enlightened by Yoda. The pivot does the work - just not all of it. The pivot just does what it is designated to do. The pivot starts the hands down like a big wheeler needing a few lower gears to move from a dead stop. The pivot kinda takes up the “slack” at the top, if you can pictured that in your head.
Once the pivot, body and hands are all in motion, the pivot just keeps moving to stay in rhythm with the arms, but the hands are violently heading into impact. Educated hands controlling a well “rhythmed” machine. I hit the ball a ton now. Of course it was more to it then getting re-pivoted. Yoda works wonders - even with AIs.

To baseball: I teach my son to step and throw the ball, body moves the arm throws. The body was no idea where the ball will go, but the arm does. Hitting, waiting for the pitch is like being at top. See the ball, move leg, hips rotate pulls shoulders (takes up the "slack") and the arms fire. The body moves but the arms and hands control the bat.


I still feel that way about it.
Click to expand...


isn't #3 pivot controlled hands? Isn't that what TGM is NOT about?
I thought you take the pp#3 to the aiming poimt and the body will follow. I swear i think I understand something then I see a post from someone that has had a "lesson" and it's totally different!!
I don't see how you can have a haand controlled pivot by starting the downswing with the pivot.
 
6

6bee1dee

New
The hands are the boss - they allow the pivot to move on its terms.
It is a hand controlling the pivot - it isn't a pivotless arm motion swing.

1- This is one of the most confussed areas in TGM. It has been debated for years. Don't be afraid of the pivot doing the work as long as the hands control it. The hands are the brains/the boss, the pivot is cheap labor/a mule.

2- Ben likes the pivot doing more of the work then Yoda.

3- I like the pivot to nudge my hands into the swing. And thats because my hands told the body, the pivot to do so.

4- You start the swing with the lower body, unless you are holding your privates (LOL) the hands are up top - in the control center - the grip with its pressure points.

5- "Train the pivot first." - Homer said that.

6- I'm 6bee1dee and I approve this post.
 
H

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by galopin

Bob,

The phrase you highlighted is how Ben Doyle teaches Hip Action. Keep in mind that Ben teaches a Swing stroke and it's this action of the hips that a Swinger utilizes to release Accumulators 1, 2, and 3.

[Bold by Holenone/Yoda.]
Click to expand...

As I pointed out in an earlier post, the Pivot has the assignment of Transporting the Assembled and Loaded Power Package Down Plane to the Release Point. Until that assignment has been completed, there is no independent motion of the Arms and Hands (6-K-0). Since the entire operation is under the command of the Hands, this fact does not violate the Hand-Controlled Pivot concept (5-0).

However, the Release is not Triggered by the Pivot. It is Triggered by one or more of the Triggers catalogued in 10-20. Usually, this would be the Right Arm Throw (10-2-B) for Hitters and the Left Wrist Throw (10-20-E) for Swingers. For Snap Releases, both procedures are normally used in combination with the Deliver Path Throw (10-20-D).
 
C

cdog

New
Wanole......this is one reson most get confused about THE book, it's in the interpretation.
Same as the bible, 2 can read something, see it in different ways.
 
W

wanole

New
quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by galopin

Bob,

The phrase you highlighted is how Ben Doyle teaches Hip Action. Keep in mind that Ben teaches a Swing stroke and it's this action of the hips that a Swinger utilizes to release Accumulators 1, 2, and 3.

[Bold by Holenone/Yoda.]
Click to expand...

As I pointed out in an earlier post, the Pivot has the assignment of Transporting the Assembled and Loaded Power Package Down Plane to the Release Point. Until that assignment has been completed, there is no independent motion of the Arms and Hands (6-K-0). Since the entire operation is under the command of the Hands, this fact does not violate the Hand-Controlled Pivot concept (5-0).

However, the Release is not Triggered by the Pivot. It is Triggered by one or more of the Triggers catalogued in 10-20. Usually, this would be the Right Arm Throw (10-2-B) for Hitters and the Left Wrist Throw (10-20-E) for Swingers. For Snap Releases, both procedures are normally used in combination with the Deliver Path Throw (10-20-D).
Click to expand...


SO, what should I work on from the top? A shift to my left side dropping the hands on plane?
 
6

6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by cdog

Wanole......this is one reson most get confused about THE book, it's in the interpretation.
Same as the bible, 2 can read something, see it in different ways.
Click to expand...

Homer was quite clear. It is a hands controlled pivot. A pivot controlled by the hands. NOT a hand pivotless arm swing.
Let's say you are a longshoreman hoisting a box on a pulley and rope. Your hands are in control of the rope and it is pulling along with strong body movement.

Homer said that the body leads the hands that lead the club.
 
M

MizunoJoe

New
My version of Right Arm Swinging is an ELBOW Controlled Pivot - drive the right elbow to it's impact location and the hips move to accomodate it. The hands are along for the ride and get whipped into impact. Therefore it's not a HAND controlled pivot, and it's not pivot control either.
 
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