Brian Manzella
Administrator
Remember....the ball would go NOWHERE without the pivot....
"I feel like I never move my hands"
- Thread starter diggerdog
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The magic of the right elbow
Hands vs pivot control are, to a certain degree, a matter of 'feel' once the relationships of hands to body are learned. You can 'feel' either way, however:
1) you can NOT have 'slack' - the whip motion moves "from the ground up" through your body
2) The end result is that you want you HANDS to move in synch with your torso (shoulder line triangle with hands), through the shot. See Brian's swing in his signature for an excellent example of what you want to SEE in your swing.
Hmmmm.. sounds like you may be getting stiff Miz. I try to make my release automatic with no muscular effort to hold the angle. You might be getting tight and tense trying to maintain an angle. Have you tried just letting the structure be limp? I know it sounds kind of odd, but I can still direct my shoulders, elbow, and hands with no tension at all because i'm not forcing them to do anything.. just directing them. Maybe this could help you? I know it helped me, but that's as far as I can really go with it.
The Right Arm Swing requires loose forearms/wrists, and I have nothing but minimal athletic tension elsewhere. This is a tension free procedure. The deeper I drive the right elbow, the more the lag, and the more stress there is on the right arm when the accumulators are snap released. I'm not driving the right FOREMAN toward the target, nor whipping the FOREARM, as you describe, but rather whipping the ELBOW to the impact location.
Squishband
New
I agree with Joe... definitely very stressful to the forearms and strangely the right deltoid as well.. however I don't quite know what is controlling what...
I used to race motocross and the feeling is similar if not identical to the dreaded "forearm-pump"..
The ball seems to behave when I use this procedure... just be careful not to get too flat...
I used to race motocross and the feeling is similar if not identical to the dreaded "forearm-pump"..
The ball seems to behave when I use this procedure... just be careful not to get too flat...
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Interesting.....
rwh,
STRESS is felt from a few inches below the funny bone on the lower arm all the way up to the right rotator cuff. At first just from the weight of the club coupled with the whipping of the elbow into the impact location while leaving the hands/club "behind", and then at release point, when this stress dramatically increases. This right elbow action CAUSES lag pressure at #3 PP, but I'm not monitoring it or directing it. It gets directed by the elbow action. This is neither Hand Controlled Pivot nor Pivot Controlled Hands, but rather an Elbow Controlled Pivot procedure.
STRESS is felt from a few inches below the funny bone on the lower arm all the way up to the right rotator cuff. At first just from the weight of the club coupled with the whipping of the elbow into the impact location while leaving the hands/club "behind", and then at release point, when this stress dramatically increases. This right elbow action CAUSES lag pressure at #3 PP, but I'm not monitoring it or directing it. It gets directed by the elbow action. This is neither Hand Controlled Pivot nor Pivot Controlled Hands, but rather an Elbow Controlled Pivot procedure.
The problem with swing thoughts of this nature is that it may work initially but could become less effective as time goes by.The reason for this is that if you focus on any one part of your body for too long,it will start to dominate and you will over emphasise the movement.This is how being 'too mechanical' begins.
The elbow leading the hands into impact should be the result of other intentions and not a means in itself.
ej20,
Oh, it will become less effective all right, to the point of 9 mos of rehab. I wouldn't use this as my "A" swing for no other reason than on the range, I can't hit more than a dozen or so irons and fewer drivers before pain sets in.
I can't see what "other intention" would lead to this radical movement. There's nothing mechanical about this at all, to the contrary, it's all feel. Couldn't you make the same criticism about a Hitting procedure in which PP #1 drives the left thumb down through the ball to low point. What else would you "do" to make that happen, and how could you overemphasize the movement? In this Right Arm Swing, the "heavier" you whip the cocked elbow to impact location, the more lag and the better the snap release.
Oh, it will become less effective all right, to the point of 9 mos of rehab. I wouldn't use this as my "A" swing for no other reason than on the range, I can't hit more than a dozen or so irons and fewer drivers before pain sets in.
I can't see what "other intention" would lead to this radical movement. There's nothing mechanical about this at all, to the contrary, it's all feel. Couldn't you make the same criticism about a Hitting procedure in which PP #1 drives the left thumb down through the ball to low point. What else would you "do" to make that happen, and how could you overemphasize the movement? In this Right Arm Swing, the "heavier" you whip the cocked elbow to impact location, the more lag and the better the snap release.
Miz,
My point about being 'mechanical' is not the move in itself but about overemphasizing any one area of your swing and gradually becoming too dominant.
Intentions are usually more ball rather than body orientated.I try to relate the golf swing to a baseball swing.I think about hitting a flat line drive down right field.The right elbow will lead the hands without thinking about them.Hogan describe the movement as a side arm throw to first base after fielding a ground ball.This 'intention' flattens the shaft for a shallow attack.This does contradict somewhat with TGM's intention to hitting down on the ball.
My point about being 'mechanical' is not the move in itself but about overemphasizing any one area of your swing and gradually becoming too dominant.
Intentions are usually more ball rather than body orientated.I try to relate the golf swing to a baseball swing.I think about hitting a flat line drive down right field.The right elbow will lead the hands without thinking about them.Hogan describe the movement as a side arm throw to first base after fielding a ground ball.This 'intention' flattens the shaft for a shallow attack.This does contradict somewhat with TGM's intention to hitting down on the ball.
The framing of the question is inappropriate (I don't mean behaviorally)... That is not the purpose of my "forward" swing. My forward swing is intended to move the club forward along the arc I have selected which is tangently parallel to my target. The purpose of my hinges (elbows, shoulders, and wrists) is to conserve the energy of that forward motion until such time as the accelleration of each previous lever has slowed it's movement. In effect, I think of the hinges as happening automattically.
But if you want a more direct and TGMish answer to your question.. lag exists in more than just the secondary lever assembly. The whole drive train (including the elbow) has lag. And section 7-3 quite clearly gives the right elbow a purpose in the swing.
rwh
New
Yes; any out of line condition is "lag"; however, it seems to me that what we are interested in vis-a-vis the golf swing is Clubhead Lag, which is what we are feeling through the Pressure Points. More specifically, we are feeling the pull of the longitudinal center of gravity -- the Sweet Spot. It is thatwhich we are driving down-plane at the Ball/Aiming Point. The Elbow is not a Pressure Point because Clubhead Lag is not felt there.
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