Is it possible to play decent golf with an early release

[Keefer]

If you physically can't hold the angle long enough in the downswing and get an arched left wrist into impact, then what type of things should you be doing to make decent ball contact and play golf with an early release?

For example should you learn to pick the ball (less down), put the ball in a certain position in your stance, etc., etc..

Basically, what should you try to do to better hustle your ball around a golf course and play decent golf with an early release?

 

[jbrunk]

Get good with the driver (easy to do swinging left enough off of a tee) and have a great short game. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Erik_K]

If you physically can't hold the angle long enough in the downswing and get an arched left wrist into impact, then what type of things should you be doing to make decent ball contact and play golf with an early release?

For example should you learn to pick the ball (less down), put the ball in a certain position in your stance, etc., etc..

Basically, what should you try to do to better hustle your ball around a golf course and play decent golf with an early release?

You don't need brute strength to have a lot of lag. The PGA Tour is full of people who aren't strong by any reasonable measure. Rather it is their technique, sequencing, timing, etc that promotes lag and/or some forward shaft lean at impact. Having some lag is an effect of doing a lot of other things correct. That's why we see it in virtually all high quality swings. Having said that you can become overly enamored with some "look" and then too much lag (or forward shaft lean) may be counter-productive.

The short answer is "yes" to your question. If your short game is solid you most certainly don't need boat loads of lag at impact. Maybe you won't hit the ball as far, but that doesn't mean you can't score. But you probably need at least a decent amount of clubFACE control too. That goes to how repeatable your shots will be.

The best players I know are always awesome from 100 yards and in. They can putt and they can pitch on to the green from virtually any lie. They get out of the bunkers in one shot. In short, they have a "disaster free" short game.

Erik

 

[Kevin Shields]

If you physically can't hold the angle long enough in the downswing and get an arched left wrist into impact, then what type of things should you be doing to make decent ball contact and play golf with an early release?

For example should you learn to pick the ball (less down), put the ball in a certain position in your stance, etc., etc..

Basically, what should you try to do to better hustle your ball around a golf course and play decent golf with an early release?

What angle are you trying to hold?

 

[dschultz6072]

The more I think about it, the more I am starting to believe the only reason a world class or just great player has forward lean at impact is to hit the middle of the face. It's just something that happens when the ball is struck properly. Backward lean would be hitting low on the face, too much forward lean would be hitting high on the face. I don't believe someone who strikes the ball well with sufficient dynamic loft to produce a soft landing shot is trying to "hold" anything. To me, lag is something built naturally, and must be released naturally in order to hit the desired shot.

That might be the way it is, or it might not. But the less I think about leaning the shaft forward, and the more I just try to hit the ball with a good amount of loft, the better off I am.

 

[Lifter]

Keefer,

Exhibit A of a golfer with physical limitations is my dad. He has Parkinson's. Here is a look at his swing from a year ago:

CIMG1344_2 - YouTube

MASSIVE early release! To combat it, his teacher here in Austin and I have persuaded him to adopt a strong grip. Now, despite the Parkinson's, he's shooting lower scores than he did five years ago! Consistent draws! He used to hit tons of weak floaters to the right. Now his misses go left! I'm giving him fewer and fewer strokes. He's looking forward to playing every time he tees it up.

Why is a strong grip beneficial? This video should give you an idea:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_1-yvb8FUHk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All that said, ignore what Cook says after 1:04. You don't want a neutral grip. The stronger your left-hand and right-hand grip the better.

 

[dschultz6072]

All that said, ignore what Cook says after 1:04. You don't want a neutral grip. The stronger your left-hand and right-hand grip the better.

Why? What does it do (or promote?)

 

[Lifter]

Why? What does it do (or promote?)

I think my dad is a good example of what a strong grip can do for physically limited golfers.

My dad still casts. But the stronger grip has turned his giant-mega-cast into merely a significant cast.

Not exciting if you're a low-handicapper but to him it's miraculous.

 

[dschultz6072]

How? I'm just curious. Not trying to start anything, just interested in the reasoning.

 

[Lifter]

How? I'm just curious. Not trying to start anything, just interested in the reasoning.

For many high-handicappers, giant-mega-cast + strong grip = Closed clubface at impact (and huge miss left).

To avoid the huge miss left, the golfer instinctively reduces his early casting.

 

[Lifter]

By the way, three years ago, I remember Kevin Shields looked at this video:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sBgApKb1W88" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And he said (correctly) "grip is too weak."

We finally got him to follow Kevin's advice......three years later!

 

[Brian Manzella]

I am all for a grip CUSTOMIZED to help a golfer at any level.

But the idea that a MASSIVELY strong grip is the answer for a big percentage of golfers is total BS.

 

[Lifter]

I dunno........improving the grip is one of those cases where "expect to get worse before you get better" is actually valid.

Why didn't my dad improve his grip three years ago? Because it's awkward! Inconvenient. Tough to get used to at first.

Improving the grip requires a leap of faith. In my dad's case, he hit a lot of bad shots for a month. He kept saying "I don't know if I can stick with this."

However, he was eventually able to adjust and the ultimate return on his investment has been huge.

Therefore, it's important that the golfer have faith in his teacher (who can assure him that there is a big payoff down the road).

 

[Keefer]

What angle are you trying to hold?

The angle between the shaft and the arms gets released too soon in the downswing. I probably have little (if any) to no left wrist flexion coming into impact.

Consequently the right hand breaks too soon and if my timing is off I'll hit behind the ball. If timing (weight shift etc.) is on I can catch the ball first nicely with a nice divot. Funny thing is they both feel the same (downswing).

What I have discovered is if I swing with a more dominant left arm I can get the release a little later in the downswing and get a more forward swing bottom.

Also, with this early release I don't lose distance. I have a 90 mph driver swingspeed and my 7 iron flies ~ 145-150.

Today I went with a left arm dominant swing really concentrating on the last three fingers of the left hand in control and hit my irons nice.

But that probably won't last long.

 

[Keefer]

Keefer,

Exhibit A of a golfer with physical limitations is my dad. He has Parkinson's. Here is a look at his swing from a year ago:

CIMG1344_2 - YouTube

MASSIVE early release! To combat it, his teacher here in Austin and I have persuaded him to adopt a strong grip. Now, despite the Parkinson's, he's shooting lower scores than he did five years ago! Consistent draws! He used to hit tons of weak floaters to the right. Now his misses go left! I'm giving him fewer and fewer strokes. He's looking forward to playing every time he tees it up.

Why is a strong grip beneficial? This video should give you an idea:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_1-yvb8FUHk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All that said, ignore what Cook says after 1:04. You don't want a neutral grip. The stronger your left-hand and right-hand grip the better.

I can get more left wrist flexion and a more forward swing bottom using a strong grip, but the ball will be left of left most of the time.

My grip is left thumb at 12:30 - 1:00 (medium thumb length down shaft). Right hand's life line covering the left thumb.

 

[dschultz6072]

Where is the flexion?

I have trouble seeing any other way of having the left wrist in flexion at impact with a strong grip and not hitting violent hooks or steep, delofted pushes. Pretty sure Zinger had the same action. You don't want to hood the hell out of the face in two ways (grip and wrist action).

 

[Lifter]

dschultz6072,

I think you're right. I don't think strengthening the grip necessarily encourages wrist flexion. In fact, it might even discourage it!

To reiterate my big-picture point: lots of high-handicappers have a giant-mega-cast, and a stronger grip can be very effective at fixing that problem. And I think the reason why that solution (stronger grip) isn't promoted more is because changing the grip is awkward and uncomfortable.

Another key point: if strengthening the grip is uncomfortable, then shut the clubface at address instead. That is effectively the same thing as strengthening your grip.

Keefer,

If you shut the face at address, yes, some of your shots will initially go left. But I'll bet you're athletic enough that you'll instinctively find a way to hit straight shots fairly quickly.

For many, one of the key stages in advancing from high-handicap to mid-handicap status is figuring out how to hit draws. I'm pretty sure that as I was making that transition, I gradually made my grip stronger and stronger without even thinking about it. It happened instinctively. The same thing seems to be happening with my dad right now.....

 

[Brian Manzella]

I fix 80% of all the grips I see....in handicaps higher than 15, it is more like 95%. I use some really strong grips, but I am not of big fan of them in general. Just learn to apply the correct forces and you won't need a big ole giant nasty overly strong grip.

Remember, the best players in history had RELATIVELY neutral grips....

 

[zachgolf]

A strong grip matches more to a swing where the left arm (in addition to rotation) is used to release the club? While a weak grip is for a swing where the right arm or hand is used to release the club? Is this correct, in general?

 

[Lifter]

I fix 80% of all the grips I see....in handicaps higher than 15, it is more like 95%. I use some really strong grips, but I am not of big fan of them in general. Just learn to apply the correct forces and you won't need a big ole giant nasty overly strong grip.

Remember, the best players in history had RELATIVELY neutral grips....

Right. A far, far higher percentage of 25+ handicappers would benefit from a stronger grip than scratch golfers would......