Matt Bryda
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Yes or
Maybe anything you want to do with the club
Jim McLean's 6 degree-of-freedom 3D report and other pevis/hips commentary
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Maybe anything you want to do with the club
magicmarker
New
Art, glad you are posting again. I've missed your contributions to the forum.
GeoffDickson
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dynamic stability [dī¦nam·ik stə′bil·əd·ē]: The characteristic of a body, such as an aircraft, rocket, or ship, that causes it, when disturbed from an original state of steady motion in an upright position, to damp the oscillations set up by restoring moments and gradually return to its original state. Also known as stability.
dynamic balance [dī¦nam·ik ′bal·əns]: The condition which exists in a rotating body when the axis about which it is forced to rotate, or to which reference is made, is parallel with a principal axis of inertia; no products of inertia about the center of gravity of the body exist in relation to the selected rotational axis.
These do no look like synonyms. Which concept is the relevant one??
Dear Geoff,
Thanks for the definitions, IMO, they BOTH apply to the golf swing.
Dynamic balance relates to how good the bodies main rotating elements combine to produce the least disturbance/wobble potential. As a practical and visual observation, spend some time looking at the activity of any/all golfers lead foot during the back swing, transition and down swing. It is a pretty good 'litmus test' as to the degree of dynamic IMbalance during those phases of the swing, indicating the need to 'rearrange' some of the rotating elements maybe in both position and time.
In a much more and frequently encountered circumstance, as your automobile tires wear, the symmetry of the remaining tread often is affected necessitating small lead weights to be added to the rim to reestablish acceptable 'dynamic balance'.
Dynamic stability, on the other hand is the ability for the rotating golfer, or automobile tire, to return to a 'less wobbling' condition WHEN DISTURBED. In the case of the golfer, this CAN be affected during the set-up and even early parts of the swing due to the bodies degree of freedom, BUT the automobile tire has NO CHANCE, and must be brought in for the tire/rim assembly to be REbalanced.
In my previous life involving missile launches and entry vehicle and spacecraft dynamics, initial 'dynamic' balancing took place before launch, and there were 'closed loop' control loops 'on board' each flight element to autonomously maintain the dynamic stability within values established to maintain structural integrity AND the required accuracies.
Hope you see the CLEAR analogies with the golf swing and have the opportunity to encourage the 'golf scientists' in your part of the world to start looking into this area.
Best regards, and sincerely,
art
magicmarker
New
The impression I get is that (Art, feel free to expand or correct this) when you have dynamic stability and balance the brain can truly 'work' on improving the motions and paths that the body makes during the golf swing.
But...
If your setup/swing disturbs your dynamic stability at any time throughout the swing the body will AUTOMATICALLY re-align itself to keep you from falling and when this is happening it will make it impossible for you to consciously feel/monitor what is going on during the swing, which is a vital part of improvement.
Your dynamic balance would determine how much it will take to create a 'wobble'. Dynamic stability would determine how easily you are able to recover from the wobble and return to a balanced state.
But...
If your setup/swing disturbs your dynamic stability at any time throughout the swing the body will AUTOMATICALLY re-align itself to keep you from falling and when this is happening it will make it impossible for you to consciously feel/monitor what is going on during the swing, which is a vital part of improvement.
Your dynamic balance would determine how much it will take to create a 'wobble'. Dynamic stability would determine how easily you are able to recover from the wobble and return to a balanced state.
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Dariusz J.
New member
100% truth here.
Moreover, it's worth underlining that dynamic balance as a phenomenon occurs in 2 different body planes -- sagittal and coronal. While, in a golf swing motion, sagittal plane balance is easy to be kept (because we're bipeds), coronal plane nbalance is much toughter to achieve. That's why proper stance is absolutely crucial.
Cheers
dschultz6072
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Baby Bambi should read these last few statements.
Dear magicmarker,
YES, you have a fine understanding of both balance and stability as they apply to the golf swing.
Also, the comments by Dariusz are right on but incomplete in that the disturbances that negatively affect the quality of a golf swing happen in ALL directions, not just in the sagittal or frontal planes.
In fact, the (centripetal) forces created by the many rotating elements of the golfer during the downswing are skewed to all 3 anatomical axes/planes, including the 'transverse' (horizontal) plane which separates the top of the body from the bottom. Therefore IMO, any golfers most stable swing, dynamically, will 'feel' like he/she is in total balance and control from the start of the back swing to the completion of the follow thru.
Finally, in addition to the approximate 100 pound 'pull' from the centripetal force of the golf club at impact, forces up to 100 pounds also develop at different times during the downswing from the arms, torso and lower body too. So I hope you and everyone else that read this response appreciate the magnificence of their bodies to be able to stay dynamically stable enough to even hit the golf ball forward all the time.
Sincerely,
art
Dariusz J.
New member
Art,
Have you assumed that I do not know the 3rd plane ? What you've just written is a classic attempt of trying to be wiser than the wisdom is. Transverse plane movements are happening through the horizontal axis, i.e someone is shrinking or extending. What happens in the transverse plane (e.g. head and butt sticking out more when we bow) can affect the dynamic balance in both two vertical axis planes (i.e. coronal and sagittal) if one of the two sticks are out more than the other, just to use this colloquialism to be understandable judging on one of previous posts we need to go to the primary school level, but still, the process of the dynamic balancing issues occur ONLY IN 2 PLANES -- imagine 2-dimensional force plates.
Cheers
GeoffDickson
New
lia41985
New member
Another example:Any benefit in training dynamic balance from a destabilized base like using/swinging with balance discs?
Dear Dariusz,
Thanks for your timely and thoughtful response. I have read and appreciated much of what you have posted on this site, but more importantly what you have provided on your own site. I hope to continue to share and dialog about golf science, and seek what I call 'golf truth' with you, and request that our exchanges be without any judgements other than about the science.
Sincerely,
art
Dear Geoff,
Sure hope you are kidding.
Regarding BBKIB, this repositioning during set-up, and then keeping it FURTHER back than before DOES NOT "create less dynamic IMbalance", it provides additional restoring force/torque capability on the rear side of the lower bodies instantaneous screw axis of rotation.
Kind of like adding the little lead weight to the rim of the automobile tire with which you now have more in common.
Seriously, the upper body imbalances can and should not be altered as they are the result of providing the primary torques/angular velocities to accelerate the golf club head. What is CRUCIAL is to find the best way for you and your swing to counteract and better balance the lower body dynamically to accommodate these upper body motions.
Sincerely'
art
Dariusz J.
New member
hp12c
New
Any benefit in training dynamic balance from a destabilized base like using/swinging with balance discs?
Maybe, I think Bmanz said Ben had him swing on top of a milk crate. I would choose a milk crate.
ZAP
New
So it might not be a coincidence that the last time I won our city match play tournament was when I was making fifty swings every day at lunch standing on a foam roller. It helped that I worked in an outpatient physical therapy clinic. Actually that's just a joke. I play much better now tee to green.
Come to think of it we also had putting contests during lunchtime too.
Come to think of it we also had putting contests during lunchtime too.
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