Johnny Miller is right about Tiger...

[niblick1]

As he said during one of Tiger's worst ever final round efforts:

...now it will be interesting to see if Tiger tries the same things he's been trying or tries something new...

He has no clue where the ball is going off the tee and only a slightly better idea with the rest of the bag. It was an embarrassing performance for Tiger (not to mention Cjeka). Wow. He was missing some SHORT irons 20 yards right. He couldn't find a fairway with a driver with 2 GPSs.

Stenson played great.

 

[lia41985]

Tiger's 2nd shot, on the Par 5 2nd hole, was the worst shot I've ever seen him hit. Just shocking. Fat and right, into the water--60 yards short and 20 yards right of where he was aimed. I've never seen him swing in such a forced and unnatural manner.

Congratulations to Stenson. Nice swing and nice guy.

 

[niblick1]

Congratulations to Stenson. Nice swing and nice guy.

I agree, I like watching him play. And talk about a guy who steps on his right foot to start his backswing...

And that shot into the water, that looked like something out of my Saturday foursome.

 

[dominicscaife]

Tiger's 2nd shot, on the Par 5 2nd hole, was the worst shot I've ever seen him hit. Just shocking. Fat and right, into the water--60 yards short and 20 yards right of where he was aimed. I've never seen him swing in such a forced and unnatural manner.

Congratulations to Stenson. Nice swing and nice guy.

For those who missed it - go to 1:25 on this video to see Tiger making a mess of this par 5 he birdied the previous 3 days...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHnvNnzkZS4[/media]

 

[jenhaoyen]

For those who missed it - go to 1:25 on this video to see Tiger making a mess of this par 5 he birdied the previous 3 days...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHnvNnzkZS4[/media]

Tiger is still amazing, i don't think anybody can be in the Top 8 with missing so much fairways and greens. Somebody has to send sd dvd to tiger.

 

[GPM1985]

Tiger is still amazing, i don't think anybody can be in the Top 8 with missing so much fairways and greens. Somebody has to send sd dvd to tiger.

73 wasn't too amazing. Neither is his inability to hit a fairway. I'm not going to pretend to know what his problem is, but I will say that he should be putting the ball in play more often. I mean, come on.

He puts so much pressure on his short game with his driving. A lot of the time, he responds to the pressure and finds a way to score. That's awesome when it happens, and very fun to watch, but it's ultimately unreliable under the strain of playing a course as difficult as Sawgrass. Even Tiger needs to hit the ball straight on track like that.

I can't imagine how concerned he is about his game with the Open at Bethpage approaching. He might as well leave the driver in the car. That stinks though. Playing three-wood off every tee is settling, and I don't think Tiger wants to settle. He likes to play aggressively and he needs to be able to hit the driver when the occasion calls for it. He's got some work to do.

 

[erobbins]

he's diving at the ball with everything now.. it's like he's been hanging out WAY too much with charles barkley. in one of the slow-mos they showed it looked like he actually bent his left elbow coming into the ball to get enough room to swing

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I've said it before but i'll say it again...he has a backswing issue, that's it. However he won't get the "fix" he needs by sticking with Haney. He doesn't need SD/NHA/Etc...just stop over rotating that left arm wedge and he'd be back to normalcy.

On a side note, because he is so talented when he plays well he recovers the over rotated left arm in the downswing at the very beginning of the club coming down and he hits it great usually. However when he doesn't "catch" the over rotation early is when all the bad stuff happens.

 

[fronesis]

I've said it before but i'll say it again...he has a backswing issue, that's it. However he won't get the "fix" he needs by sticking with Haney. He doesn't need SD/NHA/Etc...just stop over rotating that left arm wedge and he'd be back to normalcy.

On a side note, because he is so talented when he plays well he recovers the over rotated left arm in the downswing at the very beginning of the club coming down and he hits it great usually. However when he doesn't "catch" the over rotation early is when all the bad stuff happens.

Very nice analysis, Jim. I concur. And I would add: I think he is much more likely to "catch" the over-rotation when he's not pressing mentally or really trying to hit it hard. When he hits it smooth - or, like yesterday, when he relaxes because he knows he's out of the tournament - he can catch up to the over-rotation and hit the ball beautifully.

I know people will be talking for months about how "awful" Tiger played yesterday, but really...he played the last 8 holes 2 under, including a short miss for birdie at 17. He shot 73 on a day where just about everyone shot over par. And I think he hit the ball pretty well on the back 9; we just didn't see as many of those shots. Stenson, of course, played a truly brilliant round of golf and thoroughly deserved the win.

He does have a backswing problem, but he can't fix it with his current coach. Different topic: but what is it about Haney's teaching method or philosophy that makes it impossible for him to fix this? I mean, it's obvious to the TV announcers and the whole world that Tiger is laid off, so why not try a backswing that's less laid off, less rotated, and see how that works out?

 

[niblick1]

I know people will be talking for months about how "awful" Tiger played yesterday, but really...he played the last 8 holes 2 under, including a short miss for birdie at 17. He shot 73 on a day where just about everyone shot over par. And I think he hit the ball pretty well on the back 9; we just didn't see as many of those shots. Stenson, of course, played a truly brilliant round of golf and thoroughly deserved the win.

He does have a backswing problem, but he can't fix it with his current coach. Different topic: but what is it about Haney's teaching method or philosophy that makes it impossible for him to fix this? I mean, it's obvious to the TV announcers and the whole world that Tiger is laid off, so why not try a backswing that's less laid off, less rotated, and see how that works out?

Yeah, it was just the first 7-8 holes that looked very ugly. And I agree, it looks like when he slows down a bit, which he did once he'd lost, that it loks like he can adjust to the over-rotated backswing position.

 

[Bill Miracle]

Jim.....

I've said it before but i'll say it again...he has a backswing issue, that's it. However he won't get the "fix" he needs by sticking with Haney. He doesn't need SD/NHA/Etc...just stop over rotating that left arm wedge and he'd be back to normalcy.

On a side note, because he is so talented when he plays well he recovers the over rotated left arm in the downswing at the very beginning of the club coming down and he hits it great usually. However when he doesn't "catch" the over rotation early is when all the bad stuff happens.

Can you explain the over rotation a little more in detail? How does this happen??? What is the fix? (thinking of my own swing...not Tiger's).

 

[jbrunk]

Can you explain the over rotation a little more in detail? How does this happen??? What is the fix? (thinking of my own swing...not Tiger's).

He is referring to the rotation of the back of the left hand and forearm toward you instead of away. Kind of like in NSA.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Can you explain the over rotation a little more in detail? How does this happen??? What is the fix? (thinking of my own swing...not Tiger's).

The entire left arm rotation in the backswing; he over rotates it which from what i know is by design to keep the lefts away BUT he way over does it a lot of time. He could still be "flatter" than his earlier years and end up with a better backswing position.

 

[bcoak]

You could tell he was going right at the top of his BS (was not as bad as last day at masters) Club is pointing left of the target and he can't get it back

 

[vjsinger]

The entire left arm rotation in the backswing; he over rotates it which from what i know is by design to keep the lefts away BUT he way over does it a lot of time. He could still be "flatter" than his earlier years and end up with a better backswing position.

Do you think this is why Tiger has a "high right side" coming through the ball...a kind of fit in move in an effort to save it. It was painful for me to watch him yesterday, because it frustrates me so much to see the greatest player ever to touch a golf club have so much trouble. I think Tigers DS pivot is also killing him. What would you say Jim? Thanks.

Edit: I just read Brians Blog. Ill ask the question there as well..it still isn't clear to me.

 

[JRJ]

So...

The entire left arm rotation in the backswing; he over rotates it which from what i know is by design to keep the lefts away BUT he way over does it a lot of time. He could still be "flatter" than his earlier years and end up with a better backswing position.

So what stops this...clubface looking at ball longer, right arm feels like it's on top of left going back, ???? these things...others ???

 

[vjsinger]

For Tiger its just an understanding of what he is doing wrong and I bet he would fix it really fast.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

So what stops this...clubface looking at ball longer, right arm feels like it's on top of left going back, ???? these things...others ???

He needs his backswing to go more UP than AROUND; not a bunch but just some and it would eliminate it. Easiest way w/o introducing too much would just be to tell him to fold his right arm SOONER than he is doing. That would get rid of most of it imo

 

[fronesis]

He needs his backswing to go more UP than AROUND; not a bunch but just some and it would eliminate it. Easiest way w/o introducing too much would just be to tell him to fold his right arm SOONER than he is doing. That would get rid of most of it imo

Jim, I think you've got Tiger diagnosed perfectly! (Not that Tiger cares what we think.) Yes, it seems to me it's a combination of a flatness that his instructors have pushed, coupled with his desire to be really "wide." His 1997 was really wide (right arm didn't fold quickly) but he got it up a LOT more. Now he's going around and still trying to be wide.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Thats pretty accurate and basic stuff. Flat and narrow or steep and wide. Not usually interchangeable