Johnny Miller

[Ryan Smither]

He is horrific. The two impact comments were bad, but they didn't bother me as much as the 682 narcissistic comments in the first two hours on Saturday. I enjoy hearing insights from people that have been there, but he is over-the-top and just makes dumb comments. I almost quit watching after he made about 8 straight comments after a few putts all came up short -- "See what I told you, these greens have really slowed down." We get it Johnny. Simmer down. You can tell the other announcers can't stand when he gets on those runs. They ride him pretty hard.

He has a fetish for comments about choking, too, which gets extremely annoying. Everyone is choking at all times, no matter what actually happened, when he gets on a choking kick. A guy can't ever just hit a bad shot.

Not having been around for his era, I always thought that he was just being a d**k with these comments, acting like he'd never choked before. But after watching the Shell's Wonderful World of Golf between Miller and Nicklaus, I gained a new perspective for his comments. I've never seen anyone so nervous on a golf course (thankfully, I can't see myself to compare). I can see now that Miller takes the view that everyone chokes, it's just a matter of degree. I respect him more now, having watched him choke his brains out, than I did before.

 

[natep]

In his book he explains how he was a choker, how he shanked balls under pressure, etc. He says he's been fascinated with it his whole life and probably feels he's sort of an expert on it, which is likely why he mentions it so often on TV.

 

[Kevin Shields]

He does indeed love to talk about choking. He certainly doesn't allow anyone to simply hit a bad shot...it's always pressure.

 

[ZAP]

He does indeed love to talk about choking. He certainly doesn't allow anyone to simply hit a bad shot...it's always pressure.

Even the shot Furyk hit on 16 might have been just a bad shot. It looked like he was uncomfortable hitting the kind of hook called for on that hole off the tee. Moving that tee way up was not a favor for JF. I am heading to the range today to try the closed to open release. lol

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Sheeeiiit. I would choke too if I was trying to work the ball while ball was on the club face.

 

[brianid]

Can someone get him fired for impact stupidity? He honestly believes that Furyk is intentionally opening the clubface at impact! He probably thinks gear effect is for bicycles.

IMO, you guys are not giving Miller's comment a fair consideration...Furyk is truly trying to open the clubface, or in other words trying to delay face closure...reason also why he's a bit uncomfortable with a draw under pressure...

Furyk ain't trying to open the face with his hands though (as most of you conclude what Miller is trying to say)...Miller is right...and he's got the reputation ball striking-wise to say that over any other in here. So I'll give him a +1.

 

[cwdlaw223]

IMO, you guys are not giving Miller's comment a fair consideration...Furyk is truly trying to open the clubface, or in other words trying to delay face closure...reason also why he's a bit uncomfortable with a draw under pressure...

Furyk ain't trying to open the face with his hands though (as most of you conclude what Miller is trying to say)...Miller is right...and he's got the reputation ball striking-wise to say that over any other in here. So I'll give him a +1.

You don't know what you're talking about. Impact is 1/2000th of a second. The clubface is closing down and doesn't just magically open absent off center hits (the center is the size of pin point). I said nothing about hands and don't add a new element to my posts. Miller is 100% wrong and I take him at his ridiculous statements when he says that someone is opening the face WHILE THE BALL IS ON THE FACE! If Miller says gravity doesn't exist you might believe him.

You can have a "closed" clubface (to the target line) and still fade the ball. Go read up on the ballflight laws and look up pull fades.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

IMO, you guys are not giving Miller's comment a fair consideration...Furyk is truly trying to open the clubface, or in other words trying to delay face closure...reason also why he's a bit uncomfortable with a draw under pressure...

Furyk ain't trying to open the face with his hands though (as most of you conclude what Miller is trying to say)...Miller is right...and he's got the reputation ball striking-wise to say that over any other in here. So I'll give him a +1.

Furyk plays a draw, why would he uncomfortable hitting his normal shot?

 

[cwdlaw223]

Furyk plays a draw, why would he uncomfortable hitting his normal shot?

Because people make up their own world without making any effort to examine the facts. Much easier to live that way then work to get the truth!

 

[faux_maestro]

IMO, you guys are not giving Miller's comment a fair consideration...Furyk is truly trying to open the clubface, or in other words trying to delay face closure...reason also why he's a bit uncomfortable with a draw under pressure...

Furyk ain't trying to open the face with his hands though (as most of you conclude what Miller is trying to say)...Miller is right...and he's got the reputation ball striking-wise to say that over any other in here. So I'll give him a +1.

I heard the words come from Johnny's mouth Saturday on a different shot he said "people say you can't do that but he got that ball on the clubface then he dialed in the fade WHEN IT WAS ON THE FACE....people say you can't do that....you can."

This video:

That is where all of this started, when Johnny said that on Saturday and continued to say pretty much the same thing about Furyk on Sunday. Do you believe that Tiger/Furyk felt the ball impact the clubhead THEN opened the face to hit a fade BEFORE THE BALL LEFT THE FACE? Now do you understand where our collective facepalm reaction is coming from?

 

[brianid]

Furyk plays a draw, why would he uncomfortable hitting his normal shot?

IMO he just plays a draw much more often than a fade because he drives it shorter than many on Tour. I think he just averages 270yards.

However, irons are a different story. He's more accurate with fades because that would be a more accurate and consistent shot for him, and he knows it. That's why if its a draw under pressure, he gets the goose bumps, IMO.

A draw for him requires more timing or tweaking during the swing. A fade is a sure thing because his opening the face or delaying the face closing doesn't need any timing at all. In fact, the opening of face or delaying closure of face move is so obvious in his swing...explains his accuracy...the extreme going down in transition (due to his extremely upright BS) costs him some power though...

 

[brianid]

You don't know what you're talking about. Impact is 1/2000th of a second. The clubface is closing down and doesn't just magically open absent off center hits (the center is the size of pin point). I said nothing about hands and don't add a new element to my posts. Miller is 100% wrong and I take him at his ridiculous statements when he says that someone is opening the face WHILE THE BALL IS ON THE FACE! If Miller says gravity doesn't exist you might believe him.

You can have a "closed" clubface (to the target line) and still fade the ball. Go read up on the ballflight laws and look up pull fades.

What he meant IMO was Furyk was trying to open the face to the path. And Furyk is clearly doing that. Now, if Miller says something like that that seems absurd on its face, I would think about it hard first before dismissing him. There is a reason why he's one of the most accurate ball strikers on Tour ever, you know, at least during his prime years when he can putt. And when I did think about it, yeah Miller is right.

You not figuring it out doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. And you brought out this topic that Miller is wrong, so your opinion is fair game...so don't be too sensitive here...

 

[cwdlaw223]

What he meant IMO was Furyk was trying to open the face to the path. And Furyk is clearly doing that. Now, if Miller says something like that that seems absurd on its face, I would think about it hard first before dismissing him. There is a reason why he's one of the most accurate ball strikers on Tour ever, you know, at least during his prime years when he can putt. And when I did think about it, yeah Miller is right.

You not figuring it out doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. And you brought out this topic that Miller is wrong, so your opinion is fair game...so don't be too sensitive here...

Don't get mad when your opinion doesn't match the facts.

Here's Johnny at his best:

Johnny says that people can control their face while the ball is on the face. (40-45 second mark). That's absolutely lunacy. All of the programming happens well before and that's a fact. I'm not dealing in opinion. I'm dealing in fact. If Johnny said gravity didn't exist and I called him an idiot you would say that's an opinion. The rest of the world would say fact. Get over your lack of knowledge. Furyk plays a draw! You probably think that you feel impact while the ball is still on the club. The ball is long gone before your hands and brain can even process the vibration. Miller is an idiot when it comes to impact laws. That's a fact proven by this video.

I take Miller at what he says without making up exuses for him.

 

[brianid]

Don't get mad when your opinion doesn't match the facts.

Here's Johnny at his best:

Johnny says that people can control their face while the ball is on the face. (40-45 second mark). That's absolutely lunacy. All of the programming happens well before and that's a fact. I'm not dealing in opinion. I'm dealing in fact. If Johnny said gravity didn't exist and I called him an idiot you would say that's an opinion. The rest of the world would say fact. Get over your lack of knowledge. Furyk plays a draw! You probably think that you feel impact while the ball is still on the club. The ball is long gone before your hands and brain can even process the vibration. Miller is an idiot when it comes to impact laws. That's a fact proven by this video.

I take Miller at what he says without making up exuses for him.

I'm not mad at all counsellor. You know the drill.

However, now that I've seen the video, Miller is actually being sarcastic in there...c'mon...

However, you can really open the face. When the face hits the ball, since its in the process of opening, the face opens a bit more, just like what happens in that video of Tiger.

Wanna know how to do it?

 

[Brian Manzella]

You can't open the face through impact. Period.

I asked the smartest people in the game.

If you'd like, I'll produce the math that will show you that doing it, will make you so strong you'd be able not only to lift a car, but to THROW one.

Brianid....you've been looking for trouble since you came on here with all your silly tom numbers.

You are totally clueless.

 

[cwdlaw223]

I'm not mad at all counsellor. You know the drill.

However, now that I've seen the video, Miller is actually being sarcastic in there...c'mon...

However, you can really open the face. When the face hits the ball, since its in the process of opening, the face opens a bit more, just like what happens in that video of Tiger.

Wanna know how to do it?

How can you perform a movement in 1/2000th of a second contrary to forces going the opposite direction? You can program the club to not rotate as much PRIOR TO IMPACT, but you CANNOT DO IT DURING IMPACT! Miller is NOT joking at all. He frequently made such wild claims on Sunday with a straight face, calm delivery and without any conditions to his statements.

I like the video evidence at 40-45 seconds of his lunacy.

 

[brianid]

You can't open the face through impact. Period.

I asked the smartest people in the game.

If you'd like, I'll produce the math that will show you that doing it, will make you so strong you'd be able not only to lift a car, but to THROW one.

Brianid....you've been looking for trouble since you came on here with all your silly tom numbers.

You are totally clueless.

But..it actually happened in that video of Tiger...so it is possible...

Nope, not here to make trouble, just to speak my mind, which just happens to disagree with opinions here...

By the way...IMO, people I asked are smarter than the smartest people you asked...I respect your opinion though. I know it doesn't agree with the people I learned things from, but that's ok with me.

 

[mgranato]

But..it actually happened in that video of Tiger...so it is possible...

Nope, not here to make trouble, just to speak my mind, which just happens to disagree with opinions here...

By the way...IMO, people I asked are smarter than the smartest people you asked...I respect your opinion though. I know it doesn't agree with the people I learned things from, but that's ok with me.

Name one.

 

[cwdlaw223]

But..it actually happened in that video of Tiger...so it is possible...

Nope, not here to make trouble, just to speak my mind, which just happens to disagree with opinions here...

By the way...IMO, people I asked are smarter than the smartest people you asked...I respect your opinion though. I know it doesn't agree with the people I learned things from, but that's ok with me.

So Johnny Miller KNEW that Tiger was trying to open his face DURING IMPACT on that shot even though the clubface was closing down? Miller says that Tiger was "turing the face down" and then looked surprised at club twisting from gear effect. Miller used poor cause/effect analysis to come to his conclusion that Tiger changed movements in 1/2000th of a second.

Why don't you do a video of your swing, try to draw the ball on the downswing and right when the face first touches the ball fade the shot and show us some evidence?

 

[cwdlaw223]

bainid -

Are A & B the same color? You have to say no at the beginning of this video and yet at the end they are! Our brains aren't always that good at cause/effect analysis.