laying it off?
- Thread starter Waynkie Doodle
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I'm with you on the steep or ott downswing. In addition to the hip bump, I have also been expanding the left side, or "stretching the fat", into the downswing. But, I must say that I have to consciously feel like I'm laying the club off in order to have it actually come down on plane.
More incentive for me to pull the trigger on buying a Casio
In the meanwhile, for most pros, would you say that that the flattening is the effect of something else? Or, do they consciously flatten the shaft?
By any chance did this come up at the anti-summit?
Thanks.
gumper
I think this is the art part of the golf swing and not the science part.
The flattening of the shaft should never be a conscious move as it will never work away from the range.If you can't do this move naturally,then I suggest an across the line position is perhaps not for you.Try for at least to be inline at the top.Inline is the the simplest way to play golf.There is no need to reverse tumble(shallow) from an across the line position or tumble from a laid off position.
Furyk flattens the shaft from an across the line position but he swears he doesn't feel the loop in his swing at all.It's all natural for him and so he repeats under pressure.
IMO this is a pretty bold statement. If true, what's the use of trying to improve?
I had the pleasure of going to chiropractic school with Jimmy Kim, 1988 Olympic Tae Kwon Do gold medalist, and learned Tae Kwon Do from him for about a year. As part of taking Tae Kwon Do classes from him, he insisted that we enter his tournament. So after only 8 or 9 months of training with him--mostly all sparing--I entered his tournament. In the green/blue belt class I went 4-1 and came in second, losing to a 17 year old who had been taking classes year around since he was 10(I was 27 at the time and would have beat this guy if I fought him earlier in the day. I had him by one point and just ran out of gas and got caught on the chin by a turning back kick. I saw it coming and knew how to counter, but my legs just wouldn't move.).
Anyway, during our training classes we did mostly sparring moves; attacks and counter attacks. Jimmy would drill us again and again and again on the same moves. When asked why we were doing the same things for so long, his response was "so when someone goes to kick you in the head, you don't think, you just react". He was making us practice until we couldn't get it wrong(unless, like I was, you are too out of shape)--you might even say they felt natural.
We also did the kicks and counters in super slow motion and I mean super slow, about 2-3 inches of movement in a second. A technique he said he learned at the Olympic Training Center. I have also been doing this technique using a mirror with the swing changes I have been making and see a big change in my swing.
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Like your instructor Jimmy said,you react and don't think.That is what I meant about the flattening move.If you can drill that move so that it becomes permanent and instinctive then good for you but in my opinion it's not that easy if it doesn't come naturally.
You mentioned you had to consciously lay the club off.Well,that's not reacting..thats thinking.
I think understand what you are saying. But, for one to improve their swing, they have to change movement patterns and it has to start somewhere. Natural to me is to hit an open faced 40 yard slice. I've changed that by changing a lot of movement patterns. Is it easy? no. Necessary to improve? absolutely. You have to drill it, you can't just go to a tournament and decide to do a swing change for the day--then of course, it won't work.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Did you read the whole thread? Plenty were named.
Laying the club off at the top is not what Tiger grew up doing.It obviously does not work for him.
As for McDowell,he is laid off well before he reaches the top if you care to look at the video again.It is not done in the change of directions.
We were not talking about laid off in the backswing but at the top.There is a difference.
watson08
New
More Than A Hip Bump?
Just a thought - is there a chance that you are sliding your entire upper body targetward when doing the hip bump? If so, you'll be steep even though you moved your hip like you thought you should. I think Brian uses the terminolgy keeping the neckbone behind the tail bone or something similar.
Just a thought - is there a chance that you are sliding your entire upper body targetward when doing the hip bump? If so, you'll be steep even though you moved your hip like you thought you should. I think Brian uses the terminolgy keeping the neckbone behind the tail bone or something similar.
Laid off is laid off.Doesn't matter how short or long the backswing is.The club is pointing left of target in both cases.
The difference is that if you're laid off with the club to parallel and beyond,then most likely you will have over rotated the LAFW as well.So in that sense,yes,laid off and short is better than laid off and long.But try telling that to Ben Hogan.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
We are obviously talking about different times in the swing. Im talking at the top. Are you saying first move back? Or when? And what pictures of Nick price are you looking at?
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
So you've seen every amateur swing? Wow. Once again, I'm not defending laid off being better. I teach across the line as well, whatever is needed. If you've taught for any length of time you'd be lying if you said you havent seen the across the line/back up/drop kick every bit as much as the laid off shank.
billmckinneygolf
New
Yikes, Jenhaoyen, I wonder if I'm included in that group that made you lay it off. I remember you hitting it quite well by the end of the lesson.
billmckinneygolf
New
Man o man..how good is Kevin's statement?! "It depends" is probably my favorite two word sentence...except for all the funny ones.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Just my opinion...
Laid off is SIMPLY more open.
Crossed is SIMPLY more closed.
Just like strong & weak grips.
Just a piece of a puzzle.
Laid off is SIMPLY more open.
Crossed is SIMPLY more closed.
Just like strong & weak grips.
Just a piece of a puzzle.
Waynkie Doodle
New
So... if someone is laid off at the top and having trouble getting the club head closed enough to hit the ball straight more often than right, then perhaps getting the club lessed layed off at the top is a possible solution? The opposite for someone who closes the club too much from an across the line top position?
Depends on how long your backswing is.Brian himself is laid off at the top but because he doesn't get the club anywhere near parallel he hasn't over rotated his LAFW which means although he is laid off,his clubface is not all that open.
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